Thread regarding Ford layoffs

IDK have a look at the treasury bill auction results. https://treasurydirect.gov/auctions/announcements-data-results/
Notice how only the 4-week treasury bill ‘interest rate’ plummeted last week. That tells you there are large numbers of very jittery/scared investors driving the ‘interest rate’ down. They are parking their money for a month to see where things go.

Historically when this happens it is a leading indicator of significant market turmoil and significant household economics turmoil. You can do your own longer term research with https://treasurydirect.gov/auctions/auction-query/

Anyone else notice that using current interest rates the Ford pension fund is $2 billion under-funded? Using the 25 year average interest rate the Ford pension is fully funded. Rhymes with the bank failures, but of course there isn’t a run on pension funds.

It doesn't matter. Housing prices will never go down to anywhere near where they used to be. No 'correction' or 'recession' is going to change that. They have dipped month over month since the fed increased rates - but nowhere year the year over year climb that they went through these last few years. I wish that they would - but they won't.

@8jdm+1m8q4etY When I was referring to homeowners losing money, it was not only due to unrealized gains, but to the higher costs of repairs and property taxes. The same professional, for doing the same job, would charge more depending of the zip code. Of course, moving requires a lot of adjustments in the personal matters, and that's why many people don't do it.

I moved around a lot when younger. I got used to pack lightly, and to not keep many "mementos" with me. I usually plan ahead how many years minimum I will stay in one place. Also I tend to buy "good enough" furniture that fits my planning. That way, I can throw it away when time comes. It saves me time and money during moving.

While renting, I downsize so I can reuse part of the previous home furniture, or actually rent a furnished place. Mattress is the only thing I prefer owning, no matter if I am renting or owning.

Also, most people don't realize it, but moving to another state, or close to the border with another state can save you money because you get the best of the two worlds: cheaper housing, less sales tax, less income taxes, cheaper gas, etc. Also, I don't mind driving (I hate traffic jams, though), so living away from work is fine. Just get up early, and there is no traffic at all. Coming back home is trickier, but you could leave work early (since you started early), or you could leave late and do some OT, or you could run some errands nearby until traffic is fine again.

@8wnu+1m8q4etY I've had only one mortgage. The rest of my homes were paid for. As I explained it before, not many people like "disrupting" (sorry, too many Ford meetings lately) their lives. Anyway, I didn't sell my house and move to a nicer place. I sold it and move to an ok place, while downsizing and keeping my costs low. Then I waited for the right moment to buy in a nicer place.

Pros of moving around:

• Making tax free money or capitalizing the time and effort spent in repairing a house.
• Meeting new people and new places.
• Gives me the flexibility to pursuit or change jobs when needed.
• Decluttering your stuff from time to time.
• Rearranging your personal life.

Cons:

• Spending time or money selling the home.
• Spending time and money in moving out.
• Rearranging your personal life.

The changes in the personal life could be both a con and a pro, since it depends what happens to you and your family. One school was bad for a child, but next school was awesome. (I am not a loner, I do have a family).

Again, I know not everybody like changes (lucky me). As long as you feel comfortable with your decision to stay put, then it is the BEST decision for you.

@7lfl+1m8q4etY I don't agree, I think I would have lost money if I sold. House prices in places I was considering a move to went up more than double, some 3 times what they were when I first looked in 2019 before the insane house price increases. My house is paid for, I don't take money out of it, and my taxes have not increased that much. If you move, you pay more for the new house plus you get the newer higher tax rate, whereas if you are existing the increase amount is capped. I think I am better off right where I am for now. Even with the drop my house is still worth double what I paid, it was up another 40K over that at one point. I read an article that 80% of the people who cashed in at peak were sorry they did it as they pay more now. I didn't lose anything, it is like the stock market, yes you can sell at peak but what do you get to replace it, and would you better off playing the long game. My whole point was I think house values are too high but I could not sell it cheaper as I would have to replace with another over-valued house.

@7pwh+ You're approach is fine, although not all people are willing or able to move when valuations are excessively high. Family, health, etc, however "locking in" profit and renting until prices go back down is the way to do it if you can, and don't get caught trying to time the peak or trough. Only thing I disagree with is "When the house prices increase, the owners lose money if they don't sell." since it's not lost money, but rather just unrealized potential gains. It's like the mindset that buying something marked on sale that you would've had otherwise is saving the amount of the sale discount.

@7lfl+1m8q4etY Maybe it is/was time for you to sell the house and move to another place (maybe another town, maybe another state). When the house prices increase, the owners lose money if they don't sell. They get stuck with higher property taxes, since property valuations increase. Taking equity out of the house only adds to the debt, and to the profits for the bank.

My home tripled in price years ago and I cashed it in. I knew a house could not worth that amount of money. I rented for a year and then I bought a house half the price of mine initially, though not as in good shape.

I lived and fixed the house for some years, and I ended selling it a few years ago for around 155% of the original value. I rented again for a couple of years, while I searched for a good property. I finally found one at around the price I paid for my first home. Now the house is worth around 125% of the original value. If prices go down, I'll stay. However, if prices keep going up (yes, people may think it is impossible, but with this crazy administration, who knows?), I'll cash it in.

I don't consider myself a greedy person, but I own a house that is paid for, that is now worth double what I paid for it. I can't sell it for less than that because anywhere I would move also costs more. Even though I don't think it is fair to people trying to buy their first house to be priced out of the market, I am stuck with the same issue they are if I wanted to downsize. For now, it is cheaper for me to just stay where I am.

"The LL5 told the FCG it would never work as no one wanted to live in Detroit."

If problems were fixed in Detroit, people would move there, but there are some big ones:

1. The city taxes are way too high.
2. The schools are terrible, the best ones get a C grade, most are D or even F.
3. Crime is still too high.
4. Many of the Detroit houses are not habitable, most people will not move into a house that has been scavenged (no plumbing, etc.) where they have to tear down to the studs just to be able to have basic living amenities like heat, electricity and water.

There was an FCG who wrote up a paper how FMC could revitalize Detroit for a fraction of the Train Station cost. His proposal was that Ford gift a Detroit house to each new hire, with stipulation that it could not be sold for 5 years and must be primary resident. In addition existing employees could apply for Detroit houses from Ford with same restrictions. The LL5 told the FCG it would never work as no one wanted to live in Detroit.

“This time is different than ever before in our history. There just aren't enough houses to meet demand. And that isn't going to change.”

Naw that is the same thing people were saying before the last housing bubble popped. It’s just the way things go. People thought that in the 1920s in the US. Well documented phenomena that people only see clearly in the rear view mirror.

Plenty of houses in Detroit. Easily 70% are empty/abandoned. Just go squat in one of them / pick one up in tax auction for 2-5K. Buy the whole block or two and bring along your friends and family for protection. If enough people did that Detroit could go from ghetto to its former glory, and yes I know there are small portions of Detroit that are nice. But we all know Detroit was built for 2 million residents, not the current 600K residents.

Oh really?

Things are different now. Look at the guy posting on this thread - he bought multiple properties and raised prises on renters. There just aren't enough houses available in the market to meet the demand.

And it goes all the way to the top. Raw materials cost more than ever before and that won't go down. Home builders have slowed builds to keep demand constant. (Just like GM stopping their truck lines just to keep demand high). And large companies are buying houses as investments - regular people can't out bid them.

This time is different than ever before in our history. There just aren't enough houses to meet demand. And that isn't going to change.

Even if house builds speed up, the new prices will never be what they were two years ago. Everybody wants to be rich and will never lower their prices. Same with apartments. There is a new apartment complex being built near me. They are already advertising their prices - do you think they're lower than the competition? Nope. Because they don't have to.

Look at gas prices. Big Oil has made record breaking profits. They aren't lowering prices.

During every depression or recession in our nation's history, the wealthiest have come out mich wealthier. This time around, the lower levels have started to figure it out. People are not going to sell their homes for 2020 prices. And never for 2016 prices.

This is how midevil times lead to land 'lords' and peasants and serfs revolting...

Prices do go down during corrections. And of course there will be another correction at some point in time.

For example in 2000-2001 houses in working class neighborhood in Metro Detroit were 200-250k. Then in 2008 the same houses were 100-130k. Fast forward to 2022 the same houses are 220-300K. If one only looked at data points in 2000 and 2022 one would say house prices never go down, but they did almost lose half their value for a decade.

This is why it is best to view a house as a place to live not an investment. People don’t seem to think about all the sunk costs when they claim to have made bank when selling their home (property taxes, school taxes, insurance, maintenance, upkeep, interest on their mortgage, interest on their home equity loans, realtor fees on the front and backend).

One of my young neighbors bought a house at the bottom of the market for 130K zero down, and has pulled out his equity with a home equity loan. I sat down with him and his wife and showed them how they are really paying $440K for the house. At first the husband was angry, but later thanked me.

A similar theme can be found with automobiles. The big three thought they could print money and charge whatever they wanted for cars. Then Japan proved them wrong by producing affordable vehicles people wanted to buy. Instead of learning to compete, Ford focused on Trucks and continued to increase prices. That bubble will pop as the competition will pop it.

I think it is sad. But I agree that prices will never go down. They are at the new normal level. I wish there would be a dip in housing and rental costs but it's not going to happen.

Capitalism is fine & good, it's those that use it as a pretext for greed that are a problem. Raising prices when selling a resource in short demand is good for sending a signal to "the market" that now is a good time to sell that resource thus increasing the supply and stabilizing the price of that resource, and on the flip side the sellers need to lower their price when selling a well supplied market. Ja--ing the rate on an existing renter is greedy behavior, as you've already "sold" based on the available supply. A fair rental agreement would be one that stipulates it can be renewed after X amount of time, and that the rent will re-adjust to the current market rates be it up or down.

It's rather unfortunate that prices "only go up" and do so at a pace that is essentially set by the banking industry (IE the Federal Reserve Bank, which is not part of the US government) in conjunction with US government through policies and unfunded programs that "create money" out of nothing ("Covid stimulus payments" being a great example of this). If these primary drivers of inflation weren't allowed then pricing of resources to indicate relative scarcity would be much more effective. Not to mention that long-term savers wouldn't be penalized for saving for rainy days and retirement.

I am so sick of YOU PEOPLE....

If you don't get your way you ruin everything for everyone else.

DEI is finally gaining traction at Ford and you don't like it so you are going to RUIN EVERYTHING!

Bumping this thread so people can see just what 'capitalism' is doing to our veterans and elderly.

We can not allow the unfair treatment of specific groups like this!

Certain groups need extra support - whether that be financial support or support in the workplace.

@5tzz There's a big difference between being a capitalist who wants to make a respectable profit and being a greed filled pig who doesnt consider the human being factor. You are the latter.

So am I not supposed to increase rent when supply is low and demand is high? Are dealerships not supposed to add dealer markups when supply is low and demand is high? Are home owners not supposed to increase their list prices when supply is low and demand is high? Are the gasoline companies supposed to lower prices simply because the can? Same for the egg sellers?

That's how capitalism works. Whatever the market will bare.

This is the new normal. If you think adding inventory to homes or rental markets is going to change the price, you're just wrong. Go ahead and call it greedy. People are greedy. When the 'have nots' become the 'haves', they do the exact same things.

House prices won't come down. Rent costs won't come down. Gasoline prices won't come down. None of it will. And if salaries inch upward - you better believe that those other things will increase their prices right along with it.

Yikes...

I've seen a lot of posts on this forum about 'quit crying - work harder' and assumed it was just political rhetoric.

But this thread got dark.

I think people are saying 'capitalism' when they should be saying greed or opportunistic or price gouging. It's difficult to argue against capitalism without being called a socialist - especially on this site. But these comments below should remind people that we're talking about human beings.

However people end up in their situation, through their own fault or through circumstance, don't go out of your way to mistreat them. Treat them with some level of respect and human dignity.

I'm surprised this turned into a military thing. I have nothing against the military. I just mentioned his profession. It would have been the same if he was a scientist or a carpenter.

This is all about capitalism. Capitalism doesn't play favorites or do favors for anyone.

5reg+1m8q4etY you are a real POS. Just remember Karma has a way of going around.

@5reg As a veteran, I am curious as to why you seemingly take joy in making 1 of my brothers cry. I did alright for myself, but some didnt or couldnt. After all the veterans day parades and flyovers and gushy commercial salutes to the military, there is still an underlying hostility towards the armed forces. People endured alot of !@#$ to guarantee your safety and your right to say pretty much anything that you want. Yet you look down on us..... My question is why? Is it that you view us as less intelligent? Are we too dirty for you? Does our patriotism offend your sensibilities? As an aside, have you ever gone through a VA hospital? There used to be a big one on southfield and outer drive and it was an unbelievable experience. So, my brother may get "free healthcare" but its not the same as Blue Cross/Blue shield. Its more like getting your chemo treatments at the quicky lube.

Agree, tell folks to pay back the loans they took on and live within their means.

We need to ELIMINATE existing student loan debt!

And LOWER housing costs!

That will allow the millennials to participate home ownership. And have money to buy vehicles!

I am absolutely shocked at the behavior within this forum. I hope that the responsible moderators delete all of these racist and s-xist and classist comments.

Ford is WAY behind our competitors when it comes to DEI. Half of our LLs should be minorities. That is the only way that we will attract young talant. Young talant all support minorities and LGBTQ. We need more of those groups at all levels if we have any hope of being competitive in the future.

@4lii+1m8q4etY is exactly right!

If you even think about using welfare then you should have your children taken away immediately!

We should be following North Dakota lead! Their GOP senate just DENIED giving poor kids free lunch at school - and then APPROVED a raise for their own meal expenses!

Ford should be paying MUCH less so that the US can compete with the low cost countries!

@4htr Wrong! There are tons of jobs available. #1 if you got laid off from Ford and you dont have anything saved, its on you. #2 If you cant feed your kids with all these jobs available, your kids go into foster care. That should be motivation enough to start working. #3 The welfare system needs to be pared down to disincentivize abuse. You think thats harsh and cold hearted? Well, it happened to me and I didnt sit there and beg the state to give me money for doing nothing. I saved, looked for another job quick and took care of my kids.

With all these layoffs, Michigan really needs to revamp the welfare system. Too many kids could be going hungry when their parents lose their jobs.

Dude... I just read an article on MSM.com:

A white woman called a black woman the n-word and the black woman beat her up. It was all captured on cell phone video.

Michigan Assembly is a perfect example. The big bosses were promoted because of diversity status or who they are friends with. They are terrible people and treat their staff like cr-p. We lost a lot of good people who didn't want to put up with the BS.

@1lgj+1m8q4etY - This is not the case in IT

I am a WF - In all the departments I have worked in, the WM all know how to schmooze, and use all the buzzwords. they produce very little work, and stick together. This, of course, is not every single one of them. Continually watch them promote one another, even though they are the least qualified. Good old boys club live and well!

It seems the competent DEI are passed over.

I'm not the original poster about the groupings, but I would love to know what paradise department you work in where white men are treated fairly in Ford Motor Company?

Each group that I work in and with is almost exactly like what was described below. Us white men do the heavy lifting and leadership takes credit while the minorities are paraded and congratulated just for showing up. Even the white women are getting in on the action.

You people are all the same...

Ford lags far behind our competitors in diversity.

The future of Ford will be female and trans and colorful.

@nly+1m8q4etY I disagree with your comments. For one Doug's time at any position is a very serious concern to some of us. In looking at his time he seems to leave a company under five years. Not much time to see a product or program launch.
Sorry not drinking the Kool aid on this guy.

This comment: "Doug Field is no savior either" is totally misplaced.

By leading Model e (which is our primary focus of the future of the company), Doug will keep Ford afloat with the significant landscape change that is happening right at this moment in the mobility sector.

Also, if you were fortunate enough to participate in Doug's recent town hall, you would know he is a champion of Ford's DEI initiatives.

Its very sad I would never consider buying a Ford again. I really don't want any of the widget laden offerings that all of the automakers are spinning.

The majority never likes change - especially when it benefits the minority (or anybody other than the majority). That is human nature.

I assure you, 'Lamar and Larry' are qualified for their jobs. Just like you are.

Your resistance to change will die out with your generation. Your children and their children are going to be comfortable within a diverse workforce.

Where's the guy talking about humans all having the same amount of equal opportunity???

Come on dude - post it!!!