Thread regarding Ford layoffs

Yet you work for two Jims? The king of infantile ballistic behavior withinFord while simultaneously being the crass blowhard, showboating public mouth piece? Occasionally a reasoning well behaved side shows up if the audience includes someone who matters to him at the moment.

I’d never work for the man and I believe he has lost his sh-t recently. Do I think he is smart, absolutely but can be a loose cannon.

@ebxt+1mUb3OrG

You really don't get it?

We used to hate him. He makes electric cars that are outrageously expensive and are poorly manufactured. And he got most of his funding through state tax incentives which ultimately come from the paychecks of people who will never be able to afford to buy his vehicles. We hate those things.

Then he came out against his bl@ck employees who were receiving racists verbal attacks routinely from white coworkers. We liked his stance on freedom of speech. Then he called a man in Thailand a 'pedo'. We, again, liked his stance on freedom of speech. Then he fought against the quarantine because it hurt his production - he didn't care about their health, he just wanted to make his production volumes. We loved his stance on our freedoms. We didn't wear masks or get vaccinated so this aligned with our beliefs. And finally, he bought Twitter and stopped paying rent (Mr Trump pulled this off too) and made hate speech fair game and only bans people who trash talk him. And he has started insulting 'libs'. Plus he said he was going to completely leave California and move to Texas (technically Austin, which is a lib stronghold, but still we like that he left California).

Untimately, he can make expensive toys for wealthy virtue signaling libs, but now that he is a republican, we jumped sides. We will support anyone with an 'R' after their name even if it is against our own best interests.

That's why we LOVE Elon Musk.

So which is it? Do you guys love Elon or hate him? He demands 12+ hour days for minimal pay - and full RTO.

Elon should be focused more on saving his failing Twitter and less on RTO. He is just trying to drive a wedge between site-dependant workers and remote workers with his nonsense.

@avhq+1mUb3OrG

You sound like one of those uneducated blue collar workers. Bragging about your BBQs and NASCAR...

How many hours did you work last week?? I bet it was a lot!

@alpa+1mUb3OrG

Yeah, one a us blue collar plant people musta hurt his little snowflake feelings. I'd love to see how he'd handle a backyard bbq and NASCAR race wit me and my boys! What we say would definitely hurt his feelings!

Us blue collar folk don't need dem office workers anyhow. I always said that. We make da cars and da dealers sell em. Why do we need corporate white collar folk again??

Elon Musk is a proven terrible human being who cares about nothing but himself - even at the expense of those around him.

I am glad that he is forcing all these remote workers back to their offices. Because the Detroit 3 will follow suit quickly.

Then we get to watch all these fan boys rave about Elon while he causes them to RTO - and we can watch them jump through hoops about how he is still great and that is is all the other CEOs who are bad.

The worst treatment I ever saw or experienced was at Ford assembly plants. Chicago, Ohio, and Oakville. They were all toxic environments where the front line leaders acted more like inmates than employees. Shouting, finger pointing, back stabbing, sabotaging, taking sides, all bad. And the employees were all aggressive.

And the trades people were the laziest I had ever seen. They would stretch 2 to 3 hours of work into a whole day. And did so every day. And all acted like they were the nobelest, hardest working people and that all white collar employees weren't real men.

I think it all comes from jealousy. Most blue collar people eventually resent their higher educated and higher paid white collar peers. Especially as the blue collar workers get older and new waves of young, highly educated, highly compensated white collar workers get hired.

Think of all the lawns that will suffer if you force Ford workers back into the office! 🤣

@8zza it is interesting that

• first generation office workers don’t have the animosity as their parents are blue collar workers, and these workers have the strongest work ethic
• Second generation office workers are a mixed bag, trending toward looking down on blue collar workers and have a waning work ethic
• Third generation office workers large percentage look down on blue collar workers and entitlement has set in.

It is quite similar to the old adage of “Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations.” Which says wealth rarely survives a family business past three generations.

In this case work ethics and respect for other working classes disappears in 3 generations.

Just an observation over 40 years of working. You can clock the people who don’t have grit (perservance) which is usually formed in childhood doing progressively more difficult work.

I think there was always a little animosity between the plant workers and the office workers. Some office workers tended to look down on some plant workers as 'uneducated' labor force. And some plant workers tended to resent some office workers as lazy overpaid snobs.

The irony is that some plant workers learn smarter and earn far more than highly educated office workers and some office workers work a lot harder than some plant workers.

I think Musk is trying to use that wedge - and make it worse - to force people back to the office so he can micro manage them better and pour on more work wherever and whenever possible. And the attrition that comes with RTO is a good thing for him - he gets to avoid severance packages or unemployment.

I think remote or hybrid work arrangements make great sense for some roles and a smart company would do well to capitalize on that. But the biggest obstacle is probably the cities that offered tax incentives in exchange for employees being in office buildings and spending money in town. With them at home, no/less money gets spent and the cities are likely ready to pull their tax breaks back.

"All you people who are whining about RTO need to come spend a year with us in an assembly plant so you can learn what a real job is! If you could survive, you would probably appreciate your office jobs"

Been there done that from the mid 90s thru the end of the 00s. Crawled on the greasy a-s floors and climbed through the sweaty a-s rafters.

I saw the opportunity to cut and run 12 plus years ago and did.

Maybe you should have grown a set and moved along when you could and you wouldn't be pi----g and moaning right now.....or maybe you just couldn't do anything else but be a rat.

Enjoy that sh-t hole you're stuck in, I'll start my next workday at my desk in the country.

@7jhj+1mUb3OrG

You haven't been paying attention. First not "everyone" would quit. The people that claim they would are full of fe--s. Second, Ford employees a lot of visa employees. So they are in the same position as Tesla. Lastly, the number that would actually quit is what Ford is counting on when they announce a full RTO.

I'd love to see Ford try this. Everyone would quit so fast that the company would go belly up.

Elon is SMART. He knew to hire and sponsor a lot of green-card employees who are 100% dependent on him and the job he provides to them for them to be allowed to remain in the USA. They have to do what he says - or else!

Do Elon Musk's companies have any remote workers? Or did he force everyone to RTO?

This arguement is exactly what Elon wanted. He wanted to drive a wedge between the plant and office workers. It looks like he is succeeding.

@2rsm+1mUb3OrG I wouldn't mind coming to work in a plant. At least my work would end when I clocked out instead of being 24/7 on call if there is an issue.

@2rsm to be sure there are some entitled office workers (mainly the FnF crowd).
But not all are. I worked in a meat packing plant after high school and in the summers while in college. That job was brutal. It motivated me to focus in college and get good grades and a Masters degree and a career than I enjoy.

Now on the RTO. Quite simply it is not in Ford’s interest to bring some people back to the office. My job is one of those that requires deep concentration for hours without distraction. The Ford call-center open-office floor plan is simply not conducive to getting work done. Pre WTF era the leadership in our area realized this and the team worked from home on Tues, Thur, Fri. All meetings were scheduled on Mon and Wed. Now with leadership switch to a young-blood with no concept of what we actually do, there is a cattle call to have us all come into the office where he can watch us. And there is zero respect for distraction-free, meeting-free days so we can get-sxxx done. Of course we could say F-it we just won’t get sxxx done. Maybe we should just let the inept young-blood fail miserably.

@2gmv+1mUb3OrG. You make a great case for you working at home and staying away from any other people, as you are a tad unhinged. Of course, it would be better to get rid of you and find someone less unhinged.

2gmv+1mUb3OrG. Just to clarify a few things:

1. I work in the plant by choice. I have worked in supporting roles and continue to be offered positions in similar jobs but I'm not interested.
2. I guarantee that you aren't above me in the hierarchy. Given your response and sense of entitlement, my guess is that you are a genZ, probably a grade 6 or 7, and probably working from your mommy's basement?
3. I can also guarantee that I wouldn't be the one spitting teeth!

@2rsm+1mUb3OrG Please! Do you think I am that pathetic to be afraid to work in a plant? I have done way worse, and maybe you are the one that cannot keep up with me. The difference is that I was able to escalate the hierarchy, while you are still there. Maybe because you think it makes you look manly enough and never bothered to leave.

There is nothing wrong with an honest job, and there is nothing wrong wanting to be in more comfortable settings. WFH does not define me, at least not as much as you let working in a plant define you. You reek of jealousy and envy, behind that mask of "manhood" and "toughness". If you truly enjoy working in a plant you'd be OK with people WFH. However, it seems that you don't like to be there, you don't feel comfortable in the plant, and as a bully, you want people to suffer to satisfy your sadistic streak.

In another time and in another place, you'd be probably spiting your teeth in the ground. I was taught a good beating is the best way to face a bully, and I have given a few ones myself. In this world of anonymity, however, the best way to deal with bullies is to show them who they truly are, and go on with my life. Since I just gave you a piece of my mind, let me assure I'll keep WFH and in 5 minutes I'll forget about you.

All you people who are whining about RTO need to come spend a year with us in an assembly plant so you can learn what a real job is! If you could survive, you would probably appreciate your office jobs!

Main issue is the very to ultra rich like Muskie have large sums $$$$ tied up in commercial real estate, so less office and retail & commercial space leased, less cash they get to line their pockets with. Guess they should have thought about that before they sprung the plandemic on us. But it always goes this way, as with Ford management , for they always think they are smarter than they really are and it always seems the light of day.

And to add to the prior post. Sure, I'll show up to the office, but it's going to cost you. I'm not going to tell you the cost, but I'll find a way to make it worthwhile for myself.

Guerrilla work warfare. If you remove people from their happy place, a place where they perform well at home, and still manage work/life balance, don't be surprised if your work results suffer.

And unhappy workforce will indirectly push sub-par results onto your corporation. How so? If you can manage five programs well at home, maybe suddenly you can now only manage three. Work backs up, the corporation has to hire another person. They can't risk letting you go due to lack of people with heartbeats and a pulse.

Regardless what corporations do, the employee is always going to find a balance that matters. Perhaps it work twice as hard at home, but half as hard in the office. That's the corporations sword to fall on.

I am totally capable of working less hours to accomodate driving to work reject early am and late pm meetings then sit at a subpar desk and be totally unproductive if makes people feel better.

Even better in that interview he stated the reason for Return-to-Office is because it was unfair toward employees who cannot work from home in their jobs, such as production.

A billionaire who makes a living off of people DRIVING to work every day things it is unfair not to do so.

Meanwhile, big software companies sell digital solutions that make work easier cough but employees shall not make use of that for their own good. All for me, nothing for ye. Companies always talk about being more efficient yet insist i increase the length of my workday by 30% and my expenses by 20% only to commute back and forth, for... no benefit at all.

Ford can suck it too.

Elon can suck it.

@OP Tell Elon to go pound sand. He is a successful entrepreneur, but he is not the one designing the Teslas, the "laptop class" is. How many managers don't add anything to the processes but issues, and end earning more than the "laptop class"? Remote work is one way to compensate certain type of technical workers, specially when they are cheated from fair salaries.

I'll tell you a true story. I was tired of working for big corporations, and started looking for an smaller company, thinking it would provide me with more flexibility. I got an interview with the owner of a medium sized company. I had all the technical requirements that he needed and more, so we started talking about what I wanted.

Flexibility? Yes, you can start at 7, 8 or 9 am and work your 8 hours, but you cannot "recover" lost time or "bank" hours for another day. WFH? No, you need to come to the office. Why? is the office inside the datacenter? No, we access remotely most of the equipment from the office. Do I need to come to the office during on call hours? No, you can remotely access the datacenter from your house. If coming to the office is not a technical issue, as the owner, can you do an exception for me? No.

So then he asked me how much and I told him about 20K above the posted salary range. He said that was too much. I said well, I have to drive to the office every day, that means I have to pay for dry cleaning, eating out, fuel, car maintenance, tires, plus the time I'll spend behind the wheel instead of behind a computer screen. Or I could accept his pay range and work from home, because I would have then less expenses. He laughed and said "Good luck getting that amount". I laughed back and told him I was already getting paid that in the corporate job I had (which was true). Yeah, I didn't get the job, but I didn't want it with those restrictions.

Well, when I started at Ford years ago, I was getting paid a fair amount for the weekly 40 hours of my quality work. The problem is it happened years ago, and the raises had not kept with the pace of inflation. So while technically I am making a little bit more than when I started, I am actually having less after paying for the same expenses I had before. To compound the issue, my team lost some of its members (laid off) and now I'm saddled with more responsibilities and workload.

Therefore, no RTO for me. I am not interested in this job with the RTO restrictions. If I am pressed to comeback, I'll send the laptop back and I'll get a laptop from another company. After all, as Elon said, I am part of the "laptop class", as much as he is part of the a-hole class. Talk is cheap. Pony up enough money for me to RTO, or get lost.

I do agree that big corporations will start to fall in line like dominos. None of them wanted to be the first, but once it starts, Ford will do what they can to force us back as soon as possible...

Ford won't have enough office space to even consider RTO in 2023.