Thread regarding Ford layoffs

This is going to get ugly. The last 12-16 years the UAW leadership was on the Big 3's dole. Now this UAW leadership is not compromised like that and going for the jugular. This isn't a rubber stamp like the last 4-5 UAW contracts. The result will be higher pay and better benefits for hourly at the cost of salaried jobs in the US. LCCs will benefit.

Batten down the hatches.

Back in the early 2000s I sat in a Ford meeting where there were labor discussions. The thinking was that they needed to give salaried employees the same benefits as union so that they would not unionize. They also discussed how all salaried at that point should be doing 5 hours a week of uncompensated OT. And that should be increased over time.

The discussion was interesting as they wanted to remain MI centric as they could pay lower wages as there were fewer opportunities for Ford workers to leave their job for a better one and they had more political power in MI because they controlled so many MI jobs and resources.

MI auto industry is a case study in oligopolies and monopsonies. Then here comes ole Elon and upsets the auto industry apple cart.

Is the uaw riddled with corruption? Yes, it has been shown to be.
However the same has been shown to be true with Ford leadership (although most is kept on the DL)

@2ksy+1nIKl3pN where I get hung up is what is truly the expectation of work? You mention scenarios where there appeared to be flexibility. Line work is not that flexible, the trades are more flexible. How much work is a human supposed to do in a day? The task masters would love people to work extra for free because guess what? They reap most of the benefit and workers maybe just get the prospect of continued employment. It’s a sour deal and yes by all means go somewhere else if that is the norm. Not all people think that way, some are paralyzed with fear of change. Do you think it’s morally correct to take advantage of people like that? Some factories it’s the only employer in the town; their family roots are there, they cannot pull up and leave. Do you think companies should take advantage of people in that situation? You look at extremely productive countries like Japan, China, South Korea. They implement policies like 996, people blindly follow it. They get so burned out they can’t even start a family and in some instances end up committing su----e. Without balance we as humans do not function well. The owners of these companies do not recognize or care about that because they in most cases live a celebrity lifestyle. Whenever they go to a plant it is planned out with an entourage; they don’t typically visit plants at random and talk to workers. Everything is always heavily sanitized before they arrive. In their minds the worker is barely existent because of how their company is presented to them. Without collective bargaining this country would be in a much worse state than it is today. Unions protect workers.

@1zrl+1nIKl3pN Look, I understand that many good things we have now came from Unions and their fights. As I said in my previous comment, Unions could be great for everybody involved.

As a company, would you not prefer to rely on an specialized and motivated work force? You'd pay a higher price, but you'd get the best quality in the market.

As an employee, would you not like to be motivated, would you not like to be recognized, would you not like to have security in your job? All that, and knowing that at one point, with age, you'll get an easier physical job, man, it would be awesome.

So why is not that way? Why Union workers get entitled of not doing their regular tasks, get drunk, delay work, and in general are against new things? Because the Unions are corrupted. The first ones that should be asking for an excellent job performance from the workers is the Union, so they can sell themselves higher in the next negotiation. Instead, we have some awful employees setting the example for the rest, and giving all of them a bad name.

One time, I got a job offer for doing a certain set of tasks. I was already experienced in it, but the salary didn't match what I could get elsewhere. Why? Because as a "new" member of an Union, I could not be making more than senior members. But I was not fresh out of school, I had experience in the real world, and I have certain skills that even the "senior" member didn't have. Well, that don't matter, was the answer I got, you still would be a "new" member and the salary is non negotiable. So I ended not taking the offer. That tells me that Unions generally don't get talented people.

My brother in law is in a Union, and even he is pi---d at many things he sees everyday. He works at a seaport. We, the American people, are paying more and more in fees and delays because of the Union and its strangled choke on the ports.

I also worked as a contractor in a company with unionized government employees. The reason I was brought in was because the workers were not doing their jobs. I saw them coming into the offices at 9-10 am, get a long coffee break, even longer lunches (sometimes 2 hours), and by 3 pm almost all were gone. Except an skeleton crew, mainly composed of contractors, and a few responsible employees (mostly old ones that were pi---d at their shameless newer counterparts), the rest were just posing, and working at most, half a day. Management couldn't do cr@p about it, and the only way they got to make things happen was hiring contractors.

So I personally prefer not to deal with Unions, even if it costs me my current job. I can always find another job, but not sure if I can find another soul ... LOL. Ford is bad enough, and sadly, I've seen worse in the Unions.

@1qkt+1nIKl3pN

Everything you mention is going to happen whether there is a strike or not.

Read the opening statement. The UAW is already making salaried WFH a point of contention. If there is a strike everything you say happens. If they avoid a strike by giving the union what they want, their costs will go way up and everything you say still happens.

The company is screwed. UAW have them over a barrel. The company can't afford a strike, or to give in. Yet that it's their only two options.

Ford will be a Subsidiary of Tesla within two years.

@1qkt the only Ford employees who care what Wall Street thinks are the execs whose compensation depends on short term results as much of their compensation is in stock options.

The last exec who even seems to care about long term health of the company was AM. Everyone since has been chasing short term results. Sometimes they wax poetic about long term plans but it is all a show for short term results (if we claim plan ABC then stock might move up 75 cents).

The whole point about having a well compensated labor force is that you can attract and retain the best employees for long term success. Ford exited the long term success era with Hackett and it has continued on this path with JF and his minions like DF. The exec thinking now is labor force is a bunch of mindless easily replaceable twits so lets pay them as little as possible and who cares if they quit. Ole Henry Ford understood that he would be able to attract and retain a good work force by paying more. BF not so much. Ford is the employer of last resort that attracts and retains employees that other companies reject, much like the now defunct Kmart. Ford BTW has IT areas referred to as the Blue Light Specials as they are all old Kmart employees.

These comments about the UAW giving it to Ford, salaried supports you....strike for months. Foolish and spiteful.

If the company loses billions in a strike, you'll likely be looking for a job, and that's probably the best case. Those left in the company doing the work will be wearing even more hats, but I'm sure all of the work in your departments is well documented....right? Also pretty sure they'd use it as an excuse to be done with WFH too, so more losses there. Strike or gove in, merits and bonuses for non-UAW(and non-executives) will be low, likely another year where they don't beat inflation, so you're losing money. Must be some good-idea fa----s(LLs) posting in here with short-sighted thoughts like these.

I'd like to see Ford be smart, give them very close or exactly what they ask for(if reasonable) and get this over with quick. I don't think Wall Street would like that in the long run, so there is a snowballs chance in he-l JF will do it, but one can hope.

People must understand that the drive to move production of the things we buy offshore is driven by the fact that while everyone thinks it’s righteous for the cost of THEIR labor to be negotiated by their union, they don’t want to pay the high cost of the other fellow’s union wages.

There is a solution, a middle ground.

Labor unions must not extend across corporate or holding company boundaries. One union for GM. Another for Ford. If a investor or investment company (or small cabal of investors) own controlling g interest in several companies, those companies can have the same labor union. If you don’t do this, labor becomes a monopoly and people will choose to buy products and services from countries where those unions don’t reach. This is the situation we have today. This is the problem that politicians have been afraid to address, so they let our industry atrophy or slip away.

No monopolies in capital OR labor.

Chrysler had salary union employees and most did their job well.

@1jdw+1nIKl3pN Unions are not all bad and we as a society need to understand that without them the middle class would have never flourished. Look at companies with no unions. Amazon: basically lock the employees up like animals to sort a bunch of junk from China. Walmart: pay a non living wage and have your company subsidized by the government assistance your employees collect.

Most corporate leaders are greedy; unions give the employees the ability to collective bargain. Look at what it’s like to be salaried at Ford. We never know what the next employee makes, and we are in the dark when it comes to negotiating our salary. The company can reduce compensation (health insurance, etc) without notice. The company can terminate good employees because they have a pension. The list can go on, but frankly it su-ks being salaried at Ford unless you are LL4+. Salaried employees in Germany not the case because they are taken care of by their labor system.

It’s all about perspective. If you were born into generational wealth you despise unions because that is how you were indoctrinated (democrat or republican, rich people are all the same). Both my parents were the byproduct of union households. Without the AFL-CIO and the UAW my family would not be where it is today. Therefore I support unions, regardless of some bad behavior. You will not find one institution free from bad behavior.

@uls+1nIKl3pN You sound like Unions is the Holy Grail of the automotive industry, can cure cancer and bring world peace. LOL.

Unions are just bullies who blackmail businesses, where their leadership is corrupt and live off the workers. Why do you think the Mafia and other criminal enterprises supported and had many Unions in their pockets? Because it is legal extortion.

Now, Unions could be a great tool for the workers and the companies, but they are not. They are a hindrance for automation and new technologies. They don't allow competition, which means they are bloated and slow. They "protect" lazy workers, they encourage workers to do less, knowing there won't be any repercussions, and in some places, the workers purposely delay their tasks so they can charge OT.

Regarding your extended list of grievances, most of them are your responsibility. As a grown up, you must learn to defend your rights: no "free" OT, no long work days, enjoying your lunch, etc. If the company doesn't provide a career path of your choice, promotions, a work-life balance approach, then you should be finding something else.

The problem with many people is "comfort". They find a job, create a comfort zone there, and then complain when things no longer go their way, but they don't leave, since starting over takes hard work. It takes hard work to find another job, to create another comfort zone, to master the learning curve, to make new relationships, etc.

Personally, I don't like Unions, they tend to attract and keep the kind of people who cannot make it by themselves, and I prefer finding my on path. I'll take my chances, thanks. After all, no one will fight for me better or as much as myself.

Do you really believe the UAW isn’t in the back pocket of the corporation?
Do you really believe the corporation isn't in the back pocket of the regime?
Do you really believe that the regime isn’t in the back pocket of the WEF in China?

You have been gamed and sold out.

He is asking for a kickback from the big 3. Once Uaw leadership is paid kickbacks then that’s when they begin selling out their membership once again. Give them some designer items from Somerset paid full vacations, bag full of cash and poof done. You people don’t read the news??? What other nonunion plants did they convert in the south or supplier plants??? Hmmm? Sad part is these bozos can be paid off with peanuts. This isn’t 1930s communist against capitalist, this is asking handout business.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/2021/11/10/uaw-corruption-scandal-tim-edmunds/6368075001/

I rather risk losing my job than pay a bunch of lawyers to bully Ford into keeping low performers employed.

RE: "Salaried employees are behind you!" 10,000% behind you, kick their teeth down their throats...

The strategy of always negotiating the contract when the lots are full, especially with EV's that no one wants places the union in a very weak position. Why wait always for the economy to drop like a rock to talk about wages and benefits. The companies do not follow the rules, why not do the negotiations with the upper hand and just start when the economy is strong.

Where and when is the union going to approach the white collar workforce?

Imagine, seniority actually mattering and not counting against you, a contract person not working for 10+ years and getting axed because the winds start blowing a different way, no more "free overtime" every week for the entire career, no working though your vacations, no standard 10+ hour workdays, having an actual pension, not getting fired because you are approaching retirement age, having the ability to retrain for a new type of work, not eating lunch while conducting meetings, not always being held back to find other opportunities in the company, not being let go on the next round because you applied for a job in a different department, not having to deal with a bad boss forever when you get one, having fair representation in performance reviews, being treated fairly, not being rated every quarter so they can get rid of you now four (4) times per year, not being replaced because the boss found someone half way around the world because they are paid less, still having a top achiever category so the hard work actually counts, not inheriting the work of folks that were laid off because management demands you do the work or you are the next one fired, being able to launch a vehicle without training the Brazilians' to take over your job and replace you when you are finished (all the PMTs), etc. the list could go on and on...

It's just too bad we have already went through countless reorganizations, thousands and thousands of high value job layoffs that were lost to LCC engineering and all the other hardships to get rid of the USA workers.

Unfortunately, it's too late. I would welcome any opportunity to hold a union card, support my fellow coworkers and would happily bring back the phrase "One-Ford".

@fqm Without the UAW building vehicles to sell, U HAVE NO JOB. Your attitude is indicative of the problems America is facing these days. Anonymity on the internet is destroying civility.

Sc--w the union rats

If the union caves in, they are done. The EV scheme is full frontal right now. Clearly the Chinese and South Koreans do not want the UAW in their facilities. This will be a big bone of contention in contract negotiations. I can’t see the JV partner changing their stance. If a strike does occur, hard to say what the federal government will do. Any company who is the target will be hit hard. The last go GM lost $1.75B. This was pre pandemic however, and sales rebounded quickly. All the companies have inventory but depending on how long it lasts will determine if it’s enough. Can’t raise the price either for supply shortages, customers already tapped out with interest rates.

Holy sh&t indeed.

"Salaried employees are behind you!"

10,000% behind you, kick their teeth down their throats

Good for them! When clown's like Farley are making $22M a year it is time. Salaried employees are behind you!