Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

If am on LOA can I be LR'ed?

I was in the Security organization and my VP, Director, and Manager had no background or skills in security.

Neither does much of its technical leadership. When you drink the HR Kool-Aid which says "we only hire the top 10%" too many assume everyone knows all that can be known and not only do few people actively seek out new knowledge there but few people can absorb it when you try to teach them.

You can get a Raspberry Pi kit for well under $200 with more CPU, memory and online storage than a university computing center shared by thousands of users from 40 years ago, along with operating systems which support threading, concurrent processing and virtualization along with an exceptionally diverse set of languages, databases, redundancy and security technologies, etc... along with more information and interactive help available than at any other point in history. Cisco ups that by having a lot of idle equipment in labs at the big sites and with a little schmoozing you can get access and help working with it after hours. Take the time to learn how things are used, not just how they are built.

I made many jobs jumps with five digit increases in no small part by learning new things on my own with which my peers had no experience. I sought out like minded people at each job and we shared what we learned and challenged each other to get better. I worked on many different teams on many different technologies at Cisco and had direct interaction with over a thousand individuals and I only found one such peer.

Cisco is a legacy company that is at least 20 years behind the industry.

There are examples in software where Cisco is more than 60 years behind the state of the art, but that's more a function of the fact that the C language attracts a lot of hacks that have no formal training in software development and are unable to deal with abstractions or best practices. This is a significant part of why Cisco is a box company that has spent decades dreaming of being a systems company.

I was LR'd a couple of years ago and it was interesting to see who people really are.

Some work colleagues stayed in touch, some introduced me to people and some reached out to help me to make a plan of attack to get my new job. And some of these people were just work colleagues with whom I had a good relationship, but not that close.

On the other hand, a couple of those who I considered my closest friends in years of Cisco just disappeared. Didn't bother to check even to see if I was still alive. Once I was laid off, I ceased to exist to them.

Too bad for them that when their LR time came, I was nowhere to be found to help them, even though I had landed a wonderful and better job some time before their layoffs.

The wheel turns.

"While Cisco doesn't do anything for most people to build their professional skills they do give enough runway to those that take responsibility for themselves to keep their skills up and maintain a professional network to complete the transition with no loss of income and in many cases gain a non-trivial bonus."

I'd disagree with that statement. Cisco is a legacy company that is at least 20 years behind the industry. Skills obtained at Cisco are not marketable in the current economy. Also the culture at Cisco is relationship based, which means trying to build skills & solve problems can be viewed as a threat.

I was in the Security organization and my VP, Director, and Manager had no background or skills in security. They all focused on promoting themselves instead of solving problems or building skills.

Yep, that is what happened to me.

We actually went as far as helping with family issues for a co-worker "friend" years ago. Haven't spoken with them in years. Years!

Watch your LinkedIn friends list whittle down once you get LR'd.

Don't communicate or bond with co-workers any more than necessary to get the job done. Other than that take no part in their lives or try to build a friendship.

Most are hollow souls who will shun you immediately post LR.

“The most personally upsetting part considering I've known these people for decades. Been to parties at their homes. Know their kid's birthdays. Been there for them during their times of struggle.

Got LRd, might as well be dead to them.”

Just shows you how shallow those people were. I wouldn’t call any person at Cisco in my own circle a “friend”, I’ve fallen for that before. They are work colleagues.

@5ybu+1ne7Ey1H well you’re just wrong

@1lde+1ne7Ey1H, you clearly can't read. I've worked at Cisco since the early 2000's and have a badge # below 120000.

So CR had one LR about 9 months ago where it was announced ahead of time. That doesn't invalidate the numerous LR events he's had where it was announced in the earnings call and impacted employees were told the next day in the US.

I disagree that all work essentially stopped. I know of many teams that were very busy and stayed that way. I guess those that stopped working were those who weren't doing necessary jobs and could afford to stop working. I wonder how many of them are still around.

"you are often just shunned or avoided."

The most personally upsetting part considering I've known these people for decades. Been to parties at their homes. Know their kid's birthdays. Been there for them during their times of struggle.

Got LRd, might as well be dead to them.

The process is the same as getting fired at McDonalds.

Yes, because kids at McDonalds start with six digit salaries and after being there a while they can get six months severance plus health care as well as access to services to help you get another job.

While Cisco doesn't do anything for most people to build their professional skills they do give enough runway to those that take responsibility for themselves to keep their skills up and maintain a professional network to complete the transition with no loss of income and in many cases gain a non-trivial bonus.

...giving those who would like to leave the opportunity to volunteer - would certainly help the dismal moral[sic?] that is across the board at Cisco.

The people who would remain after the good people took a package are going to have an even higher level of average incompetence which will continue to depress morale. If you want to improve your personal morale because you have a horrible job here's a hint: take responsibility for yourself and get a new job.

People have been complaining about morale at Cisco since the 2001 layoffs and all the complaining from the bottom hasn't changed a thing in 22 years. It's time to give up on the dream of a complaint here causing all of Cisco's problems to disappear. It's not going to happen.

The process is the same as getting fired at McDonalds. Pack your sh!t and leave; even mid-shift.

A change of the layoff process in the form of caring about the people that are leaving, expressing the layoff package as a boon, and giving those who would like to leave the opportunity to volunteer - would certainly help the dismal moral that is across the board at Cisco.

Because of the way employees at Cisco are treated, (continuously laid off in a 6 month to year repeating cycle, forced to endure pointless meetings, forced to prop up woke agenda over practical business value, treated like sl-aves rather than team members) - there is little to no moral present.

This means - anyone under the VP level, doesn't particularly care if work gets done. Managers let employees slide, employees are just waiting around for their number to be called, and directors only try if they are vying for VP positions (but they don't try to do well, just look like they are doing well - so that doesn't do much either).

This company is surviving by blac-krock connections and stealing from customers. And anyone who does an ounce of research realizes it.

VP's and above, are lied to, by everyone below them. No one trusts VP's and above, because you say anything to them but what they want to hear and you're next on the layoff list. And therefore VP's and C-level never know what is really going on on the ground floor.

The peons make memes with the C-level and VP level in clown outfits. Because they are running this company into the ground and turning it into a circus.

Nearly all of us would mutiny if the right person came along and offered the opportunity.

@1htn+1ne7Ey1H You clearly don’t work at Cisco and didn’t visit this board much about 9 months ago. CR had a huge gap from announcement to execution and all work essentially stopped.

Are you a troll? CR very recently announced a reorg and layoffs then everyone waited months for it to happen. All the time with a sword dangling over our heads.

I assume you're asking me about my comment about CRs LR announcements occurring during the earnings calls and then impacted employees are being informed the next day. No, I'm not a troll. It's only been since the pandemic that CR has changed his LR announcement-to-execution process. There was the most recent ER offering that I wasn't eligible for followed by a "at-risk" announcement resulting in an LR a couple of months later. And then this most recent LR that the ELT said was not a cost-cutting measure, but was truly a limited restructuring.

I don't see how the most recent 2 out of the past 7 means my characterization of CR was wrong.

Yes, the first LR on JC's watch was in April 2001 which was announced in January. Rumor had it that JC was so angry at the then SVP of HR, BB, because she took so long to make it happen, that he fired her immediately after it was done. As someone who lived through it I can tell you that waiting those four months for the axe to fall was highly stressful and distracting for all employees.

Nothing much changed between 2001 and 2015 when JC retired. The smaller layoff in 2008 or 2009 was announced ahead of time, and the early retirement followed by the huge workforce reduction of 2011 was announced in Mar and Apr. The ER's effective date was June and the WFR effective date was Sept, with employees being informed in Aug. It doesn't seem like JC pushed for shorter announcement-to-execution timeframes.

Sure, being told ahead of time can be distracting, but it's better IMO to know something might happen in the next quarter and put off any huge purchases and save up PTO than to be told the morning after the announcement. There's no time to get used to the thought that you might have to look for a job the next day.

I loves Ciscos. be stop talking bad things about Ciscos, it good for
Me and because works 2 hours days.

I got whacked in 2019.

After 12 years of hard work, I heard NOTHING.
Not a good-bye, not "thanks" - NOTHING.
Here's some money and NOTHING.

I feel guilty about "forgetting" those who were whacked before me.

I sinned. I now know how it feels.

Please forgive me.

The problem is the slackers won't volunteer and the job hoppers do! Also, this won't ever happen as Cisco doesn't really care about their folks, it is all about the numbers.

It is pretty easy to hide in Cisco system if you only have a modest salary and are not a VP or above. VPs and above are a different story. For them it is not about performance or real leadership, it is who you know, and how many useless QBR meetings and offices they travel to so they look busy and important. VPs hire their friends and do not promote the higher potential leaders from within.

On top of all of this, Cisco is so HR heavy they try to do the leadership for their people, and the good leaders leave as they aren't allowed to really lead. Even Sr Directors have little real say.

Cisco is going to fire all those who did not take covid shot and those who applied for religious or health exemptions.

Are you a troll? CR very recently announced a reorg and layoffs then everyone waited months for it to happen. All the time with a sword dangling over our heads.

"Use to, under JC, the LR's were announced several months ahead of the axe falling and the severance terms were publicly published."

Yes, the first LR on JC's watch was in April 2001 which was announced in January. Rumor had it that JC was so angry at the then SVP of HR, BB, because she took so long to make it happen, that he fired her immediately after it was done. As someone who lived through it I can tell you that waiting those four months for the axe to fall was highly stressful and distracting for all employees.

I would not equate a LR from Cisco to anything similarly military, except maybe being on the receive-side of a old-style basic training blanket party.

i works 1.5hr day, i loves work cisco. no asked maneger me lr. why lr

The culture needs to change. Honor them! Treat them well ! Tell people what is in the LR package as Cisco keeps it a secret, so the reason we assume is that Cisco knows it should be better than it is and Cisco doesn't want the negative press. The experience should be so good that people will volunteer to be laid off. Do something extra for those with 10+ years of experience or over 60.

Use to, under JC, the LR's were announced several months ahead of the axe falling and the severance terms were publicly published. Then CR came along, and in the interests of "transparency" decided that only those impacted should be given the terms of severance. How transparent it that? Not to mention that instead of making the announcement early, it's made during the earnings call and the employee is notified the next morning.

Cisco's package is pretty decent compared to other companies I've seen packages from, and Cisco does give additional severance for the years of service above 10 and above 20 years.

The Cisco LR culture works for the ELT. Why would they change it? Layoff thousands of full-time employees rehire through contract agencies. Bonuses to the VP for reducing costs.

Your post only looks at it from the perspective of the employee. Who cares about the disposable employee with a mortgage?

4. Clarify LR Process: My understanding is that the VP/Director decides this list, and my manager is also informed. However, when I told my manager that HR had notified me about being on that list, my manager tried to console me by saying that after discussions with the work council, the number of people on the list might decrease. It was actually his management, not HR, that had the authority to make the decision. The way he pretends to be 'innocent' makes me even angrier.

The experience should be so good that people will volunteer to be laid off.

The people who volunteer are good enough to get (or already have) another job. Why would any company pay tens of thousands to get rid of such people when they don't have to?

Don't first kick someone out that loves their work and Cisco...

Read the posts on this board. There are plenty of people who love only working a few hours a week and they need to go.

The change Cisco needs is to dump most of their managerial and technical leadership that have been making the same mistakes for nearly 40 years and dramatically overhaul how development is done while completely reworking every major code base so Cisco no longer spends most of its development budget pretending to deal with bugs. Having someone who understands that a Long Term Support release of three years which is so unstable Cisco can't recommend it's use for the first two years isn't Long Term Support would also be a big step forward.