We need a salary union to save our jobs from being outsourced to LLC. A salary union working with the UAW could drive meaningful change at the top and save Ford. Salary Organize NOW!
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Those salaries Ford CAD employees represented by the UAW are part of the problem. And those who found themselves fortunate enough to hold UAW positions are simply takers who look out for only themselves as they do nothing all day but still manage to collect a paycheck.
@2pwy+1ooliYQU you are describing Ford problems not union problems
Ford salaried sleeping at their desks / conference rooms / in their car - check.
Ford salaried time cards filled out saying they worked when in fact they don’t even sign on for weeks - check
Ford salaried making an appearance at the morning meeting and then parking themselves at the bar until quitting time - check
Ford salaried being hammered daily for years on end -check
Several of my relatives are members of IAM union working in aerospace industry. They cannot fathom workplace behaviors they hear about in the Ford plants. It’s a Ford management problem not a union problem.
@2pwy+1ooliYQU lotta white collar guys coast just the same shuttling between meetings spewing crazy talk and disrupting us who want to solve problems. it would be a benefit if those guys getting in the way took a nap. ok, nap time for the self appointed experts!
People, Unions are as corrupt (if not more so) than management. Ive known union leaders and their #1 priority is to self perpetuate. They protect the people who sleep in the storage racks, they protect the people who go on vacation but still have their buddies clock in for them, they protect the people who cut holes in the fence after clocking in and then go to sit at the bar, they protect the people who show up to work hammered out of their gourd. I dont want to hear any of that pie-in-the-sky BS about them creating the middle class or how they ensure that all of their members can afford new shoes for their kids. I KNOW HOW THESE SC-MBAGS WORK!
You might say F Bill, and Jimmy..... I say fine I agree, but F Fain too!
strike on all big 3, hmm
https://www.yahoo.com/news/auto-strike-looms-threatening-shut-144245331.html
think about it: if you know your job's going to LCC anyway and is going to disappear, why not try to get some more money now? that's what i should have done.
Years ago the materials lab had an engineering union. I wonder if they still do and how they have faired.
I know of proactive top performing employees whose jobs went to LLC.
@1tzx+1ooliYQU yes that might be dangerous, but current UAW pay is not poverty wages. Think of something else.
@1wyo Exactly right! First came that debacle AMC/ASC/PTG. Then Came the 2nd debacle AD/AM. Morale cratered, costs soared, business hated it and bureaucrat groups flourished.
The architects of those disasters were never held accountable and they are long gone but still su-kling at the Ford retirement teet.
@qmc+1ooliYQU Is correct
In 2005 Ford IT leadership read some glossy magazines touting splitting the IT workforce into three distinct groups Architect-NewDevelopment-Maintenance. At the time each IT group knew the business they supported and the supporting code and performed all 3 functions efficiently.
Ford IT leadership hired the consultants recommended in the glossy magazines and came up with a plan to have a common Architecture group, a new development group, and to spin up a massive IT organization in India to do all the maintenance.
In 2006-2008 there were massive IT cuts in US. A skeletal crew was left in the new development group, the most experienced were culled (sounding familiar?).
Immediately there were problems. The business was upset with the quality and speed of maintenance. The business was upset with the architecture team who had no clue about the business requirements or the existing IT systems. All of the knowledgeable people had been cut. It was an ever evolving s—t show. The number of employees both in the US and India ballooned to levels even higher than 2005. Many years later they started pulling back all functions into one group, but the damage had been permanently done.
The kicker NEVER EVER was any of the foolish IT leadership held accountable for the damage they did to the business. Promotions all around and coverups all around.
15 years ago My co-workers and I would discuss if a union would help level the table with Ford’s management. (I retired GS8 last year). The counter argument was your jobs would go to LLCs and we’d be kicked to the curb. It happened anyways. I left because I could, no package no tap on the shoulder. Ford is going to regret going to LCC… loyalty is a two way street, I don’t have any desire to stick with this brand…. Organize a salary union, it’s long over due…,
@exm
I am fundamentally opposed to Ford Management because of how they operate and how they protect slackers.
The Ford working environment and culture is a reflection of Ford Management not the union.
The white collar ranks makeup eerily reflect the blue collar ranks. Both have some hard workers but also a lot of slackers and other non-value add workers protected by management.
It’s a tough pill to swallow, but having worked in other unionized companies, I know that the workforce is shaped by the company “leadership”. I applaud Fein for breaking free from the prior corrupt behaviors of union leadership (that was bought by guess who).
@1qyd+1ooliYQU he's talking battery plants, volatile lithium and the other toxic stuff that goes in to them
@1nrl+1ooliYQU. Oh really, does your union get it now? Because I didn't see your union campaigning against Biden or Whitmer, when loss of good Michigan auto jobs would clearly result from their agenda?
Name a Detroit 3 UAW job that is dangerous and has a poverty pay level. Just more rhetoric from Fain. He's leading the UAW down a dangerous path.
Here is a guy who sees what is going on.
"Our union isn't going to stand by while we replace oil barons with battery barons, who are more than happy to take billions in taxpayer handouts while offering workers dangerous jobs at poverty wages," Fain said.
Original poster and all agreeing are psychotic.
I am fundamentally opposed to unions because of how they operate and how they protect slackers. I would, however, be willing to listen to an option like they have in Germany. The workers council might be something to look at. The downside is that (I think) it is administered by the government. At any rate, something needs to be done to counter what leadership is doing.
I just don't understand the logics of the sentiment on this website.
- Ford is a failing company.
- Ford is not treating its employees well (constant layoffs, cutting benefits, etc. )
- We should form a union.
It looks like contradiction by me.
We are a country of capitalism, the market will decide how much you worth. America is full of opportunities.
If Ford is failing, union will only make it failing faster, remember the story of Detroit?
And why GM and Chrysler almost bankrupted in 2008? pension snowball and greedy union!
If you are a software engineer, you know FAANG pays like 300k, then why would you settle for Ford's 100k-ish?
We are know the answer, Ford has a bunch of whining babies and want to milk as much as possible.
We need a union for the gsr grades. It's time to tell JF and crew to take a hike with this constant fear factor cr-p. I see strong engineer unions at Boeing. Why won't the uaw try to get us??
@jon+1ooliYQU. You moved into management so your comments don't really fit. A salaried worker belonging to a union at Ford does not prevent them from using market remedies and going off to a different company if they are dissatisfied with their pay. And they can also individually get promoted, as you did. The problem is this. Many long term employees made a commitment to Ford. Part of this commitment was due to certain benefits that were advertised as part of your compensation. Well, shame on those people who trusted in that, because it isn't under contract. Indeed - how do you get it under contract? But for many decades this trust was honored. Now, corporations lack ethics. They pull the rug out from under 54 year old with 29 years service. They pull the rug out from under people who are already retired and shift from a fully funded health care plan to a higher out of pocket HRA plan. Union employees have these benefits under contract. As for union salaried providing incentives for companies to outsource, as if they don't already have plenty of incentive. The only disincentive is political. What political protection does an individual have? Their congressional representative? Governor?
"Engineers are too independent. They resist unions because they think they can do better on their own."
Many Boeing engineers belong to a union (SPEEA).
There are already some salaried Ford CAD employees who are represented by the UAW. Maybe ask some of them about how to join?
For salary "professionals" the market sets your value. If you think Ford is slacking move along. In my career as an engineer and then as a manager I've sat through countless meetings on where we have to be to attract the talent we need to be successful. Inventing a third party (who you pay money to, to represent your entire group) seems way more complicated than just telling HR you can do better somewhere else. I'd also add that making technical talent harder to "on board" and hard to work with as in career advancement makes off shoring the technical community a no-brainer. Careful what you wish for, and realize there are those who would profit by your decision to unionize.
Engineers are too independent. They resist unions because they think they can do better on their own. The truth is, the path to higher pay is through promotion into management or job changes. Having a union would not stop this path. GSRs would be much better off unionized. The constant erosion of benefits that has occurred happens because Ford retirees have zero leverage. Think of all the years when 401k matching has been cut, bonuses shrunk or eliminated. How about all the people who lost retiree benefits as a result of the Visteon spinoff? Ford's current transformation is not a consumer or market driven transformation, it is political. Ford GSRs have no political influence.
There’s already a union. UAW. Won’t join it as white collar workers?
As much as I hate offshoring jobs, something tells me they wouldn't have been so confident to continue sending higher level white collar positions overseas if the employees hadn't been so stubborn refusing to return to the office. We have proved to them it's possible to train and excel in positions remotely that they probably wouldn't have considered offshoring before.
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW). The IBEW represents electricians, electrical contractors, and other workers in the electrical industry. The average salary for IBEW members is $80,000 per year.
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW) logoOpens in a new window
en.wikipedia.org
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers (IBEW) logo
Operating Engineers Union. The Operating Engineers Union represents operators of heavy machinery, such as bulldozers, cranes, and excavators. The average salary for Operating Engineers Union members is $75,000 per year.
Operating Engineers Union logoOpens in a new window
en.wikipedia.org
Operating Engineers Union logo
Teamsters Union. The Teamsters Union represents truck drivers, warehouse workers, and other transportation workers. The average salary for Teamsters Union members is $65,000 per year.
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en.wikipedia.org
Teamsters Union logo
United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices of the Plumbing and Pipefitting Industry (UA). The UA represents plumbers, pipe fitters, and other workers in the plumbing and pipefitting industry. The average salary for UA members is $60,000 per year.
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ua.org
United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices of the Plumbing and Pipefitting Industry (UA) logo
American Federation of Teachers (AFT). The AFT represents teachers, paraprofessionals, and other education workers. The average salary for AFT members is $60,000 per year.
People say this all the time, and I'm all for it. However, no one knows how. I've personally contacted the UAW to inquire, but no one ever calls back (or even replies back to emails).
I hate to say it but, after the never-ending rounds of layoff and outsourcing our jobs to LLC, I would vote for a salary union. I wonder, how many other GSRs are ready as well?