Cisco protects managers and long-tenured staff, by any means, no matter what, and justifies their bullying or harassing behaviors. That's what HR and Ethics do.
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"RMAP can extend beyond 65 as supplemental to Medicare (costs drop significantly)"
Sort of. When on Medicare RMAP only kicks in if there is a procedure it covers that Medicare does not. It does not pay the difference between what MC pays and what you owe. It's fairly useless. Better to get Medicare Supplement coverage.
RMAP cost more than available alternatives plus Cisco gets a percentage of the premiums paid by retirees if they choose to enroll
Why would it apply 12 months after this grant?
It was added in the agreement I just signed so it should apply to that grant.
Yes, it applies to the 2023 grant, but you only get to keep the RSU if the grant is at least 12 months old. You signed it, didn’t you read it?
RMAP can extend beyond 65 as supplemental to Medicare (costs drop significantly)
Go to the "offramp" section on the benefits portal. Your medical IS paid by Cisco for a year. You have to make noises like it's just a one year break. And you have to be on good terms with your mgr to get LOA. I'm on it now. Medical paid for myself & spouse.
Take a leave of absence and your medical is paid for year. Works great if you ready to leave skid marks on Cisco.
That's nice if it's true, but my understanding is that you are responsible for paying for your medical benefits while you're on a leave of absence. If you're on an LOA, you're not being paid, so how can Cisco deduct benefit costs from your pay to cover them? I'm pretty sure you have to pay them yourself just like you do while on RMAP.
Which sux compared to the retirement plans of the '90's and before where companies paid for health care benefits for its retirees as a perk of remaining w/ the company for 10+ yrs. My Dad worked 10-15 yrs each for 3 companies and gets 3 different retirement checks, plus medical coverage, plus social security benefits. He currently has more income than he spends every month which bodes nicely for my inheritance. I'll probably need it because I seriously doubt that my 401(k) withdrawals will exceed his 3 retirement checks, and if I live as long as he does after retiring, I'll have emptied the 401(k) whereas his retirement checks are until he dies. At least at his age, the government won't be able to ki-l Social Security, but I'll be lucky if I see a single SS check when I retire the way Congress keeps talking.
I feel for my children's retirement. I push them to ALWAYs contribute the maximum that their employer will match, and to exceed it if they can.
Looking forward to getting old? Impressive. Remember no-one is immortal.
I don't look forward to it, but the age + years of service have to add up to 70 su-ks when the min age is 55 & years of service is 5. That leaves you 10 yrs short of being eligible.
I was just looking at the silver lining where the math causes the rate of retirement vesting to reach 100% decreases by 2 yrs for every year.
Long tenure AND at G13 or equivalent at least. Then protection. Otherwise, you are just replaceable resource
Long tenured employees are often the first to go during the LR cycles due to age - fact!
Take a leave of absence and your medical is paid for year. Works great if you ready to leave skid marks on Cisco.
RMAP Is way overpriced compared to comparable options in marketplace
Just another "fake perk" that Fran throws out there when you are LR'd
"Luckily every year I grow a year older"
Looking forward to getting old? Impressive. Remember no-one is immortal.
Adding to the RMAP comments here. RMAP medical monthly cost options for 2024:
You: $1,268 or $1,491
You + Spouse: $2,664 or $3,132
You + Child: $2,664 or $3,132
You + Children: $3,678 or $4,325
You + Family: $3,678 or $4,325
Yeah, good luck with losing all your unvested RSUs when you get LRed.
Now, for 2023, they’ve added a “retirement” clause whereby older workers laid off will automatically vest their outstanding RSUs. Of course, it will only apply from November 2024 (12 months after this grant).
Why would it apply 12 months after this grant? It was added in the agreement I just signed so it should apply to that grant. However, the math doesn't quite add up. You have to be age 50 or older (check), have 5 or more years of service (check), and your age plus years of service have to add up to 70. Between my age and years of service, they add up to 63 leaving me 7 yrs short. Luckily every year I grow a year older and I gain another year of service, so that shortage will end in 4 yrs, not 7. It really won't matter which RSU grant this new clause will apply to in my case because the current grant will be 100% fully vested in Nov '26 assuming I make it that long.
There many over 60 still “working” under the Legal Organization. They are a protected class and do nothing at work.
I thought that anyone over 40 was supposed to be in the age discrimination protected class. Hasn't protected my a$$ over the last 20 yrs.
Hopefully RMAP still an option for those affected over 50.
Doesn't RMAP end when you reach age 65 and become eligible for Medicare/Medicaid?
My Dad's retirement benefits from back when companies gave retirement benefits is a decent monthly retirement check and an insurance plan that pays all the costs that that Medicare/Medicaid don't. He's been collecting that since 1995!
Yeah, good luck with losing all your unvested RSUs when you get LRed.
Now, for 2023, they’ve added a “retirement” clause whereby older workers laid off will automatically vest their outstanding RSUs. Of course, it will only apply from November 2024 (12 months after this grant).
We all love watching Bay Area residents deal with crime, dr-g addicts, homelessness, human waste, high taxes, ridiculous housing prices, and incompetent government whose policies lower their quality of life while trying to convince themselves how wonderful their lives are.
It's really entertaining to see someone with so little self-awareness puff their chest out and double down on their declining standard of living with pride.
impacting mental health. I would just run away from a bad job.
I had a very similar situation working for a very bad manager outside of Cisco.
Was corrupt and toxic
Older person here in late 50’s. 401k is in quite good shape and will retire anyways in a year or so. I always paid large 401k monthly contributions all my working life. But LR payment would be nice so hanging on for that. If it doesn’t come will just quit. Working at Cisco impacts mental health.
Smoking coke
Cisco salary in San Jose is similar as McDonald’s in Mississippi
The package is NOT a myth.
The package wasn't the myth. The myth was the idea that all old people who are laid off from Cisco retire at that point in time, hence they are all "totally screwed." The hint was in this part of the sentence:
Nearly half a year of free salary after getting a job quickly when laid off from Cisco...
Have you tried to save for retirement in the Bay Area?
If you're going to live in a high cost area you have to work in a high income industry, like finance in NYC. Otherwise you want to live a ring or two out from a smaller center where you can mix some commuting with some work from home and have a high income without a high cost of living. The worst you can do is earn dirt in Podunk land.
A rundown shack is $1.5 million in San Jose.
The median retirement savings for 55-64 year olds is well under $200K so you can sell that shack at retirement you'll live well in a Podunk town compared to your aged peers.
...pay student debt...
Anywhere near 55?
Don't forget about the cost of private health insurance for someone over 55.
Fair warning to the younger generation: RMAP costs a fortune and the co-payments add
up quickly. Half of bankruptcies occur from medical costs and half of those are people who have health insurance.
“Or you can move to a state like Tennessee, Missouri, Oklahoma, or Iowa and find a decent, realistic place, in a safe area, for $250,000; within a 1/2 hour drive to a Target or Wal-Mart“
Lose your teeth, add 50lbs, and join Don’s team and you will fit in perfectly!
There many over 60 still “working” under the Legal Organization. They are a protected class and do nothing at work.
Re: "Have you tried to save for retirement in the Bay Area? A rundown shack is $1.5 million in San Jose. The ability to save for retirement, pay rent, pay student debt, and save for a house down payment doesn't add up."
- Or you can move to a state like Tennessee, Missouri, Oklahoma, or Iowa and find a decent, realistic place, in a safe area, for $250,000; within a 1/2 hour drive to a Target or Wal-Mart.
Re: "Don't forget about the cost of private health insurance for someone over 55."
- If you get LR'd over 50, you can get RMAP for health insurance.
Hopefully RMAP still an option for those affected over 50.
When Uber drivers in Bay Area all talked about AI 10 years ago, nobody from Cisco talked about AI, why AI now? only because you see the money from AI? Cisco was never part of the AI to begin with. Cisco is a leader obsessed with past.
a nanny at Bay area makes $40/hr, she drives a Mercedes or a Tesla coming to work at your house, this is fact of living in the bay area
"If the person nearing retirement age has been working for Cisco for ~20 years and doesn't have an at least $1M 401k---something was wrong with their ability to save, form the get go. Their fault."
Have you tried to save for retirement in the Bay Area? A rundown shack is $1.5 million in San Jose. The ability to save for retirement, pay rent, pay student debt, and save for a house down payment doesn't add up.
"If you leave your current employer at ANY time age 55 or over; can be if you choose to leave, or if you are LR'd; you can then start annuitizing from your 401k. That is how people 55 and over can retire once they are LR'd."
Don't forget about the cost of private health insurance for someone over 55.
Re: "I really feel for the workers nearing retirement age that I heard didn't get anything extra. "
- If the person nearing retirement age has been working for Cisco for ~20 years and doesn't have an at least $1M 401k---something was wrong with their ability to save, form the get go. Their fault.
- If you leave your current employer at ANY time age 55 or over; can be if you choose to leave, or if you are LR'd; you can then start annuitizing from your 401k. That is how people 55 and over can retire once they are LR'd. The package just puts icing on the cake. If you have been at Cisco for a long time--and don't have near $1M in your 401k; shame on you. That is how us old timers end up not working once leaving Cisco.
Here: https://smartasset.com/retirement/401k-55-rule
Re: "Nearly half a year of free salary after getting a job quickly when laid off from Cisco, which is a huge hole in the "early retirement" myth. "
- Above is NOT a myth. LR'd five years ago, my payout was more like 10 months with bonus included; which was nice. And yes, luckily went directly to a company that contracted with Cisco and increased pay 40% from Cisco.
The package is NOT a myth. Here on east coast; there are a good five or six of us that did the same thing. Once I went, my ex-boss then took a package. He's completely retired; I work part time. Mid 50s.
I really feel for the workers nearing retirement age that I heard didn't get anything extra. We totally screwed them!
Millions of dollars in compensation not including benefits. Seven digit 401Ks. Nearly half a year of free salary after getting a job quickly when laid off from Cisco, which is a huge hole in the "early retirement" myth. The product quality is garbage which means you aren't being held accountable and your customers don't get to back bill you for the cost of dealing with that. In what kind of dr-g addled fugue is the employee being "totally screwed?"
Go work at a median job in the US collecting a small fraction of the income then tell us how much more they rewarded you when you were laid off.
It makes me sick how we treat people. Chuck, Fran, and the ELT keep saying how great of a place to work this is, but this is pure and simple brainwashing!
I really feel for the workers nearing retirement age that I heard didn't get anything extra. We totally screwed them! We all know nobody gets a retirement party at LR time, as we also all know how badly we just screwed them! It is our culture to look the other way. Nobody will speak up as they are afraid they will be next. All we say is it was legal ! We're more worried about being legal than treating employees with respect.
Just sick!!! I know our past CEOs had to do some layoffs, but they did that out of necessity and honored people. I bet if they knew, and maybe they do, that they would be sick of what we have become too!
The managers protected, yes. Long tenured individuals, only if they are helping to keep the managers job. Otherwise, no.
This is Cisco way started with John Chambers, hired H1Bs in the united states or moved offices to Bangalore. Cisco Bangalore Campus is bigger the San Jose campus.
You are the old white man from United States, your manager is a H1B holder went to college in a third word country, get ready for your job to be replaced by another H1B within 3-6 months.
The ELT is only for the ELT. Pure and simple. Long tenure = hosed. Old white guys long tenured = bohica.
Eh, you pay your money (time) and you take your chances. Cisco is just another woke dinosaur struggling in a tar pit. You gotta know when to get in and when to get out.
Cisco protects our EVPs at any cost. They are not even held accountable for unethical behavior unless word gets out.
We also turn our backs on anyone LRed even if they are long-tenured staff. We basically bribe them to keep quiet when they are LRed to sign the papers, so they tolerate how bad we treat them. I wanted to hold a party back in early March for the two senior folks on my security team who were getting laid off and were going to retire, and that went over like a lead brick to my management (can't call them leadership either). I later found out from one of them how badly they were treated, they got no early retirement, and they were devastated for their career to end this way after putting like ~20 years into Cisco.
Our layoff culture is sick!