Thread regarding Verizon Communications Inc. layoffs

If you are in VGS, question your leadership about RTO!

Early Nov, notices start rolling out that RTO is happening and it will be 2 (or more) days a week. Local leaders all point the finger at executive leadership.
Nov 15th – Email Update regarding Work Forward received from FinOps Communications, Signed by Dan Gerola, SVP -Finance Ops
o This supports the indicators that the Return to Office was an executive level decision
o This email supports the information that the 2 day a week decision was made at an executive level.
▪ It clearly updates the in-office schedule to show that instead of starting at 2 days in Feb 2024, it will begin at 1 day and move to 2 days in June 2024.
o This email provided a link to an FAQ regarding RTO, which also supports that this is an executive level decision.
• Dec 6th – Ask Me Anything VGS with Craig Silliman – EVP and President of VZ Global Services
o At minute 40:30 min of the replay, begins the final (and very brief) RTO conversation on how and/or why the RTO decisions were made.
o Craig very specifically says he refuses to make a uniliteral (top down menu) decision on what RTO will look like for each office because he doesn’t know the right answer. That the “teams in individual locations know best what the right mix of days in the office, the mix between working remotely, working in the office, what days those are, and that’s by design and that’s local office will know what works best”.
o Craig also says “The design of work forward is for the local teams” and that our questions and conversations should be with our local leaders.

• Questions for local leadership:
o Why are we being asked to go into office 2 days a week instead of maintaining at 1 day a week?
▪ Please note that we are not asking to maintain 2 days a month. We respect that leadership wants to be in more often. We are asking why it cannot be a compromise.
▪ Many teams have proven to be just as effective (if not MORE effective) in a WFH environment as they are in the office. To many of us, this feels like a punishment and not a necessity.
• Many people have stated that if they want to be productive, they have to put in their earbuds to drown out the office. i.e., they have to isolate themselves, while surrounded by people. This is counterproductive to the goal of “corporate culture”.
o Since Craig has clearly placed this back on the local leadership, can we have more open discussions about what works for the local teams?
▪ People have anxiety about being in office.
• Anxiety about being around people. Anxiety about driving on the highway. Anxiety about the increased cost of coming into the office. Anxiety about the increased distractions of being in office and being unable to get work done, therefore feeling pressured the rest of the week.
▪ Child care is 30% more expensive now than it was 3 years ago. Due to daycare billing and attendance practices, 1 day a week will be easier to accommodate then 2 days a week.
• Child care is also harder to get into.
▪ For people who do not live near the office, traveling in to the office 1 day a week is more financially feasible
• This is in consideration to the cost of gas, toll roads, wear and tear on the vehicle, potential increased cost of insurance, etc.
▪ Since Verizon made it clear that there will not be cost of living increases to combat inflation costs (also in the AMA replay, at minute 34:45) the increased cost to come into office is a very real concern to many employees.
• Many of your employees are living on single incomes. Living pay check to pay check. Have only been able to survive this far because of the benefit of working from home.
• Verizon will absolutely lose employee talent over the 2 days a week mandate.
While attrition fallout has likely been discussed and executive management likely feels that the loss is acceptable; as local leadership we think it is important to acknowledge that you’re going to lose your best talent when VZ can’t afford to lose its worst.

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Post ID: @OP+1qhDAXWr

40 replies (most recent on top)

hahahahahahh now the company is going to announce 3x a week with little notice to start the week after Labor Day. All that complaining got you nothing. All those questions at town halls did nothing but make you look like a complainer who is absent the ability to work like a team. Don’t you wish you had months to prepare for this change now?!?! VGS is getting none of it and they are telling us more cuts are coming later this year.

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Post ID: @2hdv+1qhDAXWr

@3tuti+1qhDAXWr Taking the package will just give them more time to post. So many former vzers here.

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Post ID: @3ters+1qhDAXWr

OP — please, please, please tell me you took the package so you can torment some other company with your entitled demands!!!!

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Post ID: @3tuti+1qhDAXWr

OP - now that the company is back 2x a week you are welcomed to take the package and bring your elongated complaining to another company.
Looks like B2C knew what they were doing all along. They gave people lots of notice so they could prepare.
Please take the VSP to end your entitlement.

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Post ID: @30xdk+1qhDAXWr

I’m in FPAS and have applied to all of the recent open positions in Finops. They are taking a small stance to return to work and that’s what we need to get back on track.

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Post ID: @1Eovp+1qhDAXWr

OP put a lot of effort into this post. Imagine if you actually put this much effort into your work. However, none of this sounds like the responsibility of the company. It is always funny to expect the company to raise your child or pay for your child care. A lot of this was done before pandemic. It is also not the company's responsibilities because you choose to have 1 income. Don't like the rules or the game get out and find something better. If the relationship is abusive then get out.

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Post ID: @1pwgm+1qhDAXWr

Kathy Grillo’s group has been in the office weekly for months. The Gerola group was not the first to RTO in VGS. The entitlement group keeps embarrassing themselves every time a Leader comes to town or they ask questions on the Answers series. Other groups are noticing and no one will want you when you post out for greener pastures. You can self select or be RIFfed but the end result will be the same.

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Post ID: @1pble+1qhDAXWr

If only you put this much effort into your average work day

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Post ID: @1pucy+1qhDAXWr

With the sell-off/closing of buildings, a full RTO is not even possible outside of a few locations (Lake Mary or BR for example). In ATL, closed two offices, closed a few in Colorado and NJ as well as buildings on campuses in TX and CA. All that said, will most likely return to some semblance of what hybrid was before covid... 1-2 days a week in, balanced against other groups or stay the 'when a big-wig' is in town or once a month routine.

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Post ID: @ixqx+1qhDAXWr

Fact -- VGS just did a reorg and here in the South they are HIRING more people!

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Post ID: @ggvu+1qhDAXWr

I doubt it. After the wfh experiment fails as it currently is, it’ll be a long time before anyone considers that model again if ever.

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Post ID: @euzw+1qhDAXWr

@9nog+1qhDAXWr
If they find non-colocation to be an issue will that restart the centralization cycle. So many groups are spread out even if they RTO. Then a few years from now when things don’t improve they can start decentralizing or maybe WFH->RTO->WFH will be the new cycle.

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Post ID: @coxl+1qhDAXWr

https://www.bisnow.com/national/news/office/ups-to-require-corporate-workers-to-return-to-office-5-days-a-week-122303

It’s only a matter of time.

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Post ID: @ceqi+1qhDAXWr

There’s is something to rto and less offshoring. If rto is based on some metric being lower or a reduction in innovation it proves that working non collocated is a problem. It won’t stop outsourcing but it might reduce it. Just a thought.

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Post ID: @9nog+1qhDAXWr

@8fsr+1qhDAXWr you are kidding yourself if you think RTO will save jobs from being outsourced. Unless your job requires boots on the ground, it's not safe. Just ask the folks whose jobs were shipped overseas long before COVID when wfh became the default.

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Post ID: @9rkv+1qhDAXWr

Everyone in VGS should hope for RTO. It means they aren't planning on sending your job to India.

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Post ID: @8fsr+1qhDAXWr

Take a look. WFH and remote appear to work, but only in the short term. Eventually every company needs innovation not just mindless data entry: https://www.businessinsider.com/remote-work-innovation-collaboration-return-to-office-work-from-home-2023-12

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Post ID: @7nes+1qhDAXWr

This might be the most factually inaccurate and entitled post on the layoff about rto to date.

Remote work is dead just like the 5 day in office week. Read the room. Corporate America is full of trend setters and trend followers. There are tons of articles about the rto increase across all industries ie trend setters. The rest, like Verizon, will be followers. You can pout, whine, cite anecdotal stories about perceived productivity increases or even make up stories about anxiety, but it won’t matter. Hybrid is here for now and it will end up with at least 3 days per week likely ending at 4 though. Whatever your schedule is the requirements will increase until at least 3 days per week. Especially when the recession hits later this year. Honestly, posts and entitlement like this are the reason rto is happening. Especially with child care and those workers supposedly being extra productive while babysitting their kids during work hours. Think back to the wireline strike in 2016. Over 60% of the office staff was in the field installing cable for 51 days and we still closed the books kept the lights on and passed all sox audits covering that period. That’s essentially what has been happening for the last 2-3 years as people continue to get lazier and lazier and don’t kid yourself thinking Verizon isn’t fully aware.

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Post ID: @7tzi+1qhDAXWr

That's crazy because I'm in VGS and have heard literally nothing about any type of RTO other than the current hybrid schedule we've had since the inception of work forward, which for some teams can be 2 days per week.

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Post ID: @7svy+1qhDAXWr

RTO is not the concern here folks. The concern for VGS folks is whether or not you'll have a job in 2024. If you manage to keep your job, be thankful for it, from wherever you have to work.

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Post ID: @4gox+1qhDAXWr

They don’t care what they say. Participation is #1. How much we are commited to the to the company over all else #2.

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Post ID: @4yzn+1qhDAXWr

Just keep putting it (RTO) on the Pulse Surveys..............it will drive upper management crazy

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Post ID: @4qeb+1qhDAXWr

Some locations have facial rec cameras to get in building after badge activates the camera

Post from TheLayoff.com

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Post ID: @3hpx+1qhDAXWr

The bottom line is. Who cares. Either you go into the office or you don’t. Be an adult and make a decision. Rto isn’t happening for everyone. Some locations don’t have enough seats for full Rto after buildings were sold off. You want me to come in. Sure I’ll come in. I’ll go in, pop the AirPods in and go into space for 8 hours.

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Post ID: @3isk+1qhDAXWr

@3gbl+1qhDAXWr
Hate to tell you but a couple years before the VSP my leader used to get badge in reports so there is nothing to develop the just need to decide to use it. Exec Dir would hassle the director who would hassle my manager and he would constantly have long calls with a coworker who pretty much never came to the office.

After they took the vsp I heard they eventually got someone to badge them in. Wonder how many will get caught either badging folks in or wfh while badged in.

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Post ID: @3ojv+1qhDAXWr

Facts do not care about feelings

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Post ID: @3krd+1qhDAXWr

@3gbl+1qhDAXWr My pool and lawn will be ki-ler this summer with wfh. And I’m cool with selling it. I have no mortgage, I paid 530k for it, it’s now worth 1.2 mil. Prob worth more than your 401k. So speak for yourself.

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Post ID: @3ltv+1qhDAXWr

This thread is pretty funny. Anyone who doesn’t think rto is coming and increasing over the next 12-24 months is living under a rock. All companies including Verizon will start tracking badges by the end of this year and disciplining accordingly. The software developed by chase to send attendance dashboards to all leadership levels is going to be distributed or replicated across corporate America. Those who quit or are fired because they didn’t rto will have a difficult time finding something new. I hope your pools and lawns are maintained so you can sell when you’re unemployed.

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Post ID: @3gbl+1qhDAXWr

ALSO YOUR EMPLOYEER IS NOT RESPONIBLE FOR HOW YOU GET TO AND FROM WORK OR WHERE YOU LIVE.

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Post ID: @2jnv+1qhDAXWr

Sweet time to get ride of the sitload of deab LBS/Kilos that this company has. Some of us on the younger side still have 20 plus working years in front of us. Cant wait to clean up on you fools who have to complain about RTO get out already. Y'all new this was coming. Knock on Nike finally realized paying people to leave to is not a smart biz decision. Y'all employeed at will free to come and go. Stop the whining we all face the same thing. Some of us where customer facing the last 4 years and actually get the work done that pays the bills. Y'all going back to the office deal with it or get out.

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Post ID: @2nva+1qhDAXWr

It sounds like the primary issue isn’t simply about going back into the office but being able to actually AFFORD the simple ability to go back into the office.

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Post ID: @2jbw+1qhDAXWr

Listen. You don’t want to go back in don’t. Who’s holding a g-n to your head. They going to fire you?? You have to ki-l someone before you get fired here. They checking badge swipes. Nope. And that’s a fact. I’ll keep working on my manicured lawn and my clear as a bell pool. You want to go in. Go in. Most want to go in to kiss a-s anyway. Good luck in 24. I’m 3 years out to retirement, I’m milking this joint till they unload me.

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Post ID: @2pwc+1qhDAXWr

Just go back into the office. Why is this an issue? That's what you signed up for when you were hired. Seems like someone just wants to nap and take care of home activities instead of work.

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Post ID: @2nye+1qhDAXWr

Our leadership, CXO in VCG has been pretty up front that we'll be returning to office 2+ days a week some time in early 2024. It's going to happen. Most of the AT&T and TMO guys in my neighborhood have been 2-3 days a week for most of 2023.

Not saying I'm happy about it, but really? You didn't see this coming? Knowing it's coming you can look outside of VZ or start lining up the childcare now.

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Post ID: @1xbd+1qhDAXWr

Reading comprehension is great. It’s not fear mongering when it is factual that RTO is being pushed at the executive level, but being blamed on the local.

Of course they’re going to push us back into the office. They’ve shown time and time again that they don’t give 2 craps about their employees. But that’s not the point.

The point is that due to inflation and the increase to cost-of-living, people cannot afford to come into the office anymore than they already are. The average cost of living across all areas has risen an average of 20% since the year 2020. It’s going to be higher in many areas and possibly lower in others. So this is an average. Our 3% to 4% merit based increases are not keeping up with the cost of living. Which means WFH was the biggest benefit to Verizon employees in terms of being able to keep up, or just maintain the status quo, with inflation.

And now they want to cut into that? Yea people are angry. And worried. And they have a right to be. So yes. Let’s make some noise. Craig said local leadership would be happy to have these discussions so let’s have them.

Verizon will do what they want anyway but 1) management should know how badly they are misreading the situation and 2) people should at least understand how blatantly they’re going to be ignored.

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Post ID: @1jbo+1qhDAXWr

@OP fearmongering yet again - novel length post just to stay - you are returning to office....

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Post ID: @1gon+1qhDAXWr

Guess I have the unpopular opinion, so enjoy down voting.

  1. They don't care about people leaving, that's a fact. Saves them from paying severance.
  1. working from home is NOT a substitute for child care. With the exceptions made during covid, working from home has ALWAYS required you to have adequate child care. I'm a mom myself, but it's VERY unprofessional to be on a conference call with someone who has a crying child on their lap. And it happens ALL THE TIME.

and then there is c)
Anxiety about being around people. Anxiety about driving on the highway. Anxiety about the increased cost of coming into the office. Anxiety about the increased distractions of being in office and being unable to get work done, therefore feeling pressured the rest of the week.

I don't even have a response to this one other than you have got to be kidding me.

Bottom line, even at 2 days a week, you are still better off than you were coming in 5 days a week prior to covid. The answer is, if you don't like what your local management is mandating, you either look internally for a position that better meets your needs or you look at other companies. Complaining isn't going to do much good, but if it makes you feel better, have at it.

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Post ID: @1kco+1qhDAXWr

A former manager told me they werent bothering going in the one time since no one was at their location they worked with. At that point I stopped because no one I worked with had been at my location in over a decade. To go in for mega jenga and a watching party when I have actual work to do is a bit demotivating.

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Post ID: @1uzf+1qhDAXWr

Even if nothing changes, I’ll still make noise about it. I’ll be happy if it makes management as unhappy and uncomfortable as the rest of us.

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Post ID: @1hed+1qhDAXWr

The sad part about all this. VZ doesn’t care if they lose people. Great points about the cost of day care if you can even get in now. And open space is the worst. Everyone on calls. The noise is unbearable, let’s be honest. It’s not an excuse to wfh, it’s a fact of the noise. 2024 will be interesting to say the least. Good luck, I wouldn’t go in until they force me to go in or get fired. Covid is still here, people are still getting it and passing it around. And let’s be honest, we all were victims of the people without common sense to stay home sick and passed it around. Ugh.

Good luck everyone. Happy new year.

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Post ID: @1nna+1qhDAXWr

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