No one wants to live in the sh1t hole known as michigan full of horrible weather and crime in detroit combined with being underpaid
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'have a plan B'
I've been saying that since the early 2000s and after 20 years,it's exhausting.
Sharing @OP feelings about Detroit, but MI becomes a nicer place the farther you are from the Mu---r Capital. You find better housing, nicer people, and yes, the weather generally still su-ks, but it could be worse: just need to enjoy the snow and keep the heat on.
Already said that, I am not planning to go back to the office. Yes, once a blue moon was not an issue. Then was once a month, hmmm, fine. Now some people are saying 3 times a week (I haven't received anything oficially yet).
Well, first of all, there is not enough office space to accommodate all Ford personnel twice a week, even less thrice. I am guessing some areas are being forced by their LL4s, but that's not all Ford. Still, I'd not be surprised to hear manglement forcing everyone in the office at least once a week.
Here is the issue. Ford is not the best paying company, but the relaxed WFH policy kept many people around, including myself, since it compensated (somehow) for the minuscules annual salary increases. The more I have to conmute to the Ford office, the more appealing would be to conmute to another company's office. The more demanding and stressful the job becomes, the more attractive would be finding another job. Is as simple as that.
The only thing I am divided right now is my personal course of action if the RTO comes to happen. Should I say no and wait for my termination at home? At least I'll get 3 months of unemployment while I look for a job. Or should I start coming to the office and dedicate myself completely to find another job? I'll get my Ford salary instead of unemployment (minus the time and conmute expenses), but let's face it, Ford offices are not good for personal phone calls or interviews.
We'll see what happens. I am not worried about the future.
Be glad your office isn’t at the Book Depository, where my vehicle window was smashed to steal some change.
You can count on LL5+ to do what they think is best for the business. That may not always be "best" but it's their call. All you can do is be ready because you will be released if you don;t come back when they ask you to. Not a huge deal if you are contingency minded and know what the score is. Just simply have a plan B that makes sense and you'll feel a lot better.
For all you people who say "I'm not going back in the office", what do you think is going to happen if the edict comes down that everyone will be in the office X days each week? Unless you are an LL5+, you are going to get canned for insubordination (or whatever buzzword that HR will want to use).
"I dont wanna" only works in kindergarden.
@4xce+1qpBvilc. No, you are still missing the point. Of course it is a "skeevy" move for them the change the terms of a remote hire arbitrarily. But it is Ford. Ford HR specializes in skeevy. Read through this website. You will find numerous examples of Ford pulling the rug out from under people. It would be incredibly naive for someone to accept a remote gig at Ford without the awareness that it will probably change, and having a plan for what you want to do when it does change. You need to talk to someone besides HR and the hiring manager when accepting a position. I am not sure how someone can feel wronged when the slightest amount of due diligence would indicate that Ford was going to pull the rug out from under a WFH assignment at some point.
I agree that if Ford hired someone living in a remote location to work remotely and never mentioned that one day they would be expected to relocate that the fair thing for Ford to do would be to not make this demand.
That’s reasonable. That’s fair.
But Ford is neither. That’s reality.
Ford has an entire performance review process that they just toss in the tōilet when they fire people for staff reductions. Doesn’t matter what you got on your last performance review. No warning that you need to move to another area if you can. That’s Ford.
"The business requires some people to return to office. If requested to return to office and you do not, you will be terminated so that another person can do the job as requested."
I don't see what the issue is with this. Maybe unpopular, and I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment. But if they want you back in the office and you don't comply...well then I guess that settles it.
The business requires some people to return to office. If requested to return to office and you do not, you will be terminated so that another person can do the job as requested.
You're the one missing thr point.
You're free to justify & legitimize these actions in your head however and whatever way you like. But the bottom line is it's still a skeevy move to set the expectation that one's job would be fully remote then change the terms arbitrarily. Plus, it could arguably be considered constructive discharge & cost the company money for unemployment benefits. If being in the office was going to be an expectation at any point/time, it ahould have been clearly communicated in the job posting ans when an offer is extended for full transparency, to allow the candidate to decide if they really wanted to accept under those conditions.
Other companies who hired on remote employees during COVID are doing the ethical thing and grandfathering those workers into remote status. There's no reason Ford & GM can't do the same.
@2rwi+1qpBvilc. Of course not everyone wants to have a career at Ford. That is not the point. The point is, if you sign up for a remote gig at Ford, you should know what you are signing up for. You should not complain about RTO or living in Michigan. Just move on, since you only wanted a gig anyway.
I spot on with this assessment. In this current climate there are very few places you should consider retiring from and Ford is a long way from one of those places. Quite frankly, some good and talented people just don;t have the time for politics and having to navigate it. Why should they have to deal with that when all they want to do is produce good work? I know people that are happy where they are at but still have to deal with metric tons of BS "just because". They are essentially being punished for working at Ford. Suffocating talent can only go on for so long. Like was said before...if you are worth it, you'll be well served to pad your resume with a stint at Ford and move on. This is what FCG's do so you might as well.
Not everyone wants to have a "career" at one company such as Ford.
Many people are just looking for a relatively short stint to gain experience & fluff up their bank account, before moving on to the next opportunity.
This isn't 1973.
@1crb+1qpBvilc. Yes, everyone knows the politics at Ford are bad. Complaining about it from home isn't likely to change that. If you want to be influential at Ford, being able to navigate the political landscape needs to be part of your talent. If you don't like it, or just can't do that, you need to at least figure out a way to be valuable to a manager with good political skills. Many of the most successful WFH employees already had established relationships prior to WFH. If you are satisfied with your current situation and are just working out a short term string until you retire or move elsewhere, then by all means, refuse to live in Michigan and RTO.
You should go live in Oakland or San Franshizko, there is no crime there.
@1xky+1qpBvilc I'm in the office multiple days a week already so RTO doesn't bother me. Far too many political people have been promoted instead of technical people though and it shows. I spend more time convincing my LL5+ that a change is a good idea than doing the research/design for it.
I love RTO, not because I want to go back to office though.
The upward mobility I've seen because of resignations above me has probably accelerated my career 10+ years. At this point, I'm basically farming titles from those willing to die on the hill at an extraordinary rate.
Su-k this up for 5 years, and transfer to a different company multiple levels higher than I would have if I was actually competing on merit against all you all :D
It's naive to think that politics are not a part of corporate life, and that it gets worst the bigger the company is. However, having worked for multiple big corporations, Ford is by far the worst. I've asked around to other colleagues with similar backgrounds and its unanimous.
It's blatant how much coverage there is for the favorites ones that under perform, and how some decisions are made not in the best interest of the company.
@1lga+1qpBvilc. Politics is a fact of life in any large corporation. What is the definition of politics? You complain about being stiffled by the politics, but think you should have influence from the comforts of your remote office. The reality is, you aren't as talented as you think you are.
@1wza, your boss sounds like a real peach. Seems contrary to the push for 24/7 collaboration, but at the same time doesn't surprise me.
@1nza, I'm not sure about your group, but many remote workers I've known were told they can be remote, but there's no promise it won't change.
RER: My experience is the "talent" is stifled by process, bureaucracy, and management that is more worried about politics than building a better vehicle. Can't blame individual contributors when no one is allowing them to execute their ideas.
Absolutory Spot On !
I feel emboldened, we are EMPOWERED, just not allowed to make decisions, initiate any corrective actions without the Chiefs, I mean God's go-ahead.
And it gets worse as we go downhill, my LL6 doesn't even want me saying good morning to anyone with a stripe, even if it's initiated by anyone in mngt.
RE: contrarian
We could see how these electrified mustangs, re-marketed as the MachE are flying off the shelves.
No one wants them or the assembly facility would be working lots of overtime and Exec's would be cracking open the champaign that the vehicle met its production forecast.
Unfortunately, these predictions keep getting revised downward, a half-a-dozen times in the past calendar year.
Possibly, having the LVEA moved to India would help the situation out.
@1tsa+1qpBvilc My experience is the "talent" is stifled by process, bureaucracy, and management that is more worried about politics than building a better vehicle. Can't blame individual contributors when no one is allowing them to execute their ideas.
I might have to tolerate it for a little while, but if the order comes down....not for long. Everyone whose happy to see remote workers go can have my pile. I'll be fine going somewhere else but for now, I'm not really worried about it.
@1nza+1qpBvilc. The thing is, the "talent" hired just isn't that talented. Anyone looking to have any kind of a career at Ford should know that they will eventually need to be in Michigan. If you were hired remote and believed that you will stay remote indefinitely, you aren't that bright. You are basically contract status - hired for a task.
Speaking of underpaid in the Detroit area, I just saw a job posting for a specialist EE position at a company in a northern suburb paying $33-$40/hr. That’s about $66-$80k/yr.
The thing is, companies such as Ford and GM aren't the worst. Thet have a good work-life balance and good benefits compared to most non-tech compankeies (not to mention thr generous bonuses). It's just their location su-ks (and senior leadership knows this).
There are many workers who were hired at Ford, GM, etc. during COVID on a remote basis, and the message communicated by senior leadership was that there was no expectation for them to come into the office often enough to have to live in Michigan. Part of the reason for this was because they knowingly couldn't compete with companies in desirable locations (I.E. Silicom Valley) for talent.
Now, they're going back on their word and forcing these workers to relocate to an awful place they had no plans on living in, which is skeevy.
If GM is any sign, the Big 3 have already given up on attracting top talent.
They'd rather have the ability to micromanage their workers, and if only having mediocre workers who have no other choice but to live in a hellhole such as Michigan is the means to that end, so be it.n
Can you please expand on this? I haven’t heard anything about RTO what department are you in? Is it true ford credit is affected?
You might try going for a walk every night? Find a park and put on an LED headlamp.
I will go inwhen I am ready to
If being in Michigan is so horrid to you, why would you take a job at Ford in the first place? Move on, no one will miss you.
Crybaby. Salaried in plants have been carrying you this whole time. Get back to work or go away.
Do you want your LL5 to drive to your house and bring you back in cuffs?? 🤣
Especially don’t go park your vehicle near the train station. The locals will break your window to take anything they see inside.
Jeezy man. Might be time for you to just move on of your own initiative. You sound like you're a blast at parties. Especially ones in Michigan...
I haven't seen my LL5 for the past 2 years. He has been WFH.
Then find another job elsewhere.