Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

So much middle management

This company has so much middle management bloat. If there’s more than 1 layer between direction setters (ie SVPs) and line managers, you have bloat and increased confusion. Decisions take longer. Decisions are less coherent. You’re adding inefficiency and latency. You’re sabotaging the company and your coworkers. If you can’t put to words why another layer is organizationally necessary, DO NOT ADD ANOTHER ONE BY DEFAULT.

These people are climbing a career ladder that shouldn’t exist. They aren’t aligning anybody with anything other than their own short-sighted, organizationally destructive career interests. The only reason why they haven’t been eliminated is because this company is glacial with structural change.

Most of middle management do not give a damn about the work. They’ve dedicated large chunks of their lives to desperately grasp for the next rung on the ladder, and have no sense of meaning or what they’re actually doing. You have entire strata of people mentally checked out, trying to cosplay as “leaders.” If your behavior and guidance does not result in outsized gains amongst your peers and reports, you ARE NOT A LEADER.

Think on that for a second. Are you a leader, or an organizer? The one who asks “why,” or the one that fearfully ticks boxes? Does your brain do anything with the information that comes in? Or is your talent sycophancy and mindless pattern matching? We have base-capability paper pushers believing that they’re fit for command.

There isn’t a reason to have that many reporting layers. Think about it this way, would you rather have 5 more managers in your org, or 5 more g11-14 engineers?

I have seen so many people come to terms with the inescapable dysfunctionality here and either mentally check out or quit. I don’t know why I bother. Nothing ever changes, the only upside is that organizational bloat caps actual work at 15 hours/week. Which I assume is the only real upside people stick around for. Staying in the putrefaction until it gets you.

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Post ID: @OP+1rLKTZld

14 replies (most recent on top)

I want to be a director so I can make grade 13-14 money including 100k or more a year in RSU and then just kiss up, push down stupid training, copy V2mom, attend manager training and push my people so hard they stroke at their desks.....ah yes its good to be a people leader at Cisco.

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Post ID: @4abl+1rLKTZld

I agree with OP that there are some many runners, who are directors and tech leaders, for the VP. These ppl are non-technical and useless for Cisco. It is a quite a waste for Cisco HR to find out.

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Post ID: @3umk+1rLKTZld

Pareto principle here, 80% of the work is being done by 20% of the people (or 100% of the s-ckers). This is true everywhere.

In smaller companies it is easier to keep up the pretense that one is being paid to do something other than mindless busy work and honing your skills in expert mode Sudoku. Within a massive company like Cisco, the bloat and bureaucracy has all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the face. The 80% are pretty openly either backstabbing and conniving their way up the corporate ranks or they are sleepwalking through four hour days while stealing free money (like me LOL)!

I, for one, do not mind the bloated ranks of the middle management. The more bread and circus, the less someone realizes that I'm drawing a paycheck to not contribute.

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Post ID: @2hrr+1rLKTZld

I was in military. 600k soldiers and staff. As corporal I was 7 levels from my commanding general. At Cisco I am 10 levels from CR with only 90k people. WTF? Why so many levels and layers ? Thousands and thousands of managers . Why all these people?

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Post ID: @1cad+1rLKTZld

I remember being a G8 with 2 guys between me and Chambers.

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Post ID: @1tft+1rLKTZld

Cisco could double / triple their profit margins by eliminating six layers in middle. Used to be 4-5 layers to John Chamber, but now we have nine or even ten layers end to end. It’s just unbelievable. And each middle layers of BS directors do their best to show value but just being useless and causing disruption. Immediately fire all who got promoted last couple years. No billable work, no job!!!!

Who could send these comments to ELT to make drastic changes needed to bring cisco back to its glory days, if that is even possible.

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Post ID: @1zsd+1rLKTZld

The 1st line managers in SBG are absolutely incompetent. Many many 2nd line managers have absolutely no technical smarts. All they do is assign work, be on meetings and do 1:1s and obviously su-k up to the Directors. Trash managers in SBG

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Post ID: @efc+1rLKTZld

Thank you for saying the same thing everyone has been saying here, probably since the site was founded. If you had bothered to look at the posts for the past few days you'd see this same cr-p rehashed over and over again in top level post after top level post after top level post.

Think about it this way, would you rather have 5 more managers in your org, or 5 more g11-14 engineers?

If I wanted any chance of getting something out on time with some semblance of quality I would fire 5 managers AND 5 g11-14 engineers.

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Post ID: @prk+1rLKTZld

Sometimes if these useless mgr gang stay passive that will be no immediately harm. But there are useless puppy projects bring created, implemented, promoted. Just simply wasting everybody's time and resources.

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Post ID: @vil+1rLKTZld

i agree about the useless layers of mgmt. Idk how it is in other groups, but to me, if your not 1 - my direct mgr or 2- my dept director, i never hear from you other than the occasional quarterly "atta boy"! email, which to me is just a joke. i think we have way too many middle-upper level managers. idk what they are doing, and im so busy i dont have the time to care. Our ExecVP just got "retired" and honestly, i dont know of a single person who truly understood what exactly they did. other than create an absurd fire drill related to v2mom copy and paste 2x a year....

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Post ID: @zgw+1rLKTZld

I was an individual contributor and noticed exactly what you described. When first hired I looked up to these managers. But I understood quickly that they where posers that only conveyed my information to the next layer.

I also became one of them. Promoted and participated in their calls. Very quickly I could see how I contributed very little in reality. I was not engaging with the customer nor partners anymore. It was all politics I noticed. And a lot of big egos—wow!

I quit for that reason and looking at the current events and evolution it goes exactly as I predicted when I left two years ago. Such bloat cannot continue without significant consequences at some point. I think it’s near now, but the splunk acquisition needs to be flushed out first. There will be some hype related to software, AI that the market might buy for a few quarters. It buys management some additional quarters with a new storyline. It will not last, as revenues will not be marginally improved by this after all.

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Post ID: @bwu+1rLKTZld

After rounds after rounds LR against engineers. I see increasing leader team.
First line manager with less than 5 engineer, second line manager , director, senior director. Even with less than 5 engineers there are result collecting talking TLs.
We had reaching the road side repair picture, one worker works many supervisor supervise !

*This round my team LR'd few more engineers who actually work. Every single manager stay and thrive ....

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Post ID: @ekd+1rLKTZld

Cisco is an 80k-person enterprise, not a start-up. You don't have to have an MBA to know that SPOC is not feasible.

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Post ID: @fyw+1rLKTZld

So many moaners on here from uk. Get a life people. Targeting individuals , complaints here is a joke

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Post ID: @vos+1rLKTZld

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