Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

Life lesson to young folks!

Just a quick 7 min webex and a very long career is over. Even after serving my entire career, running a very large team, building software, minting $100+ Million in YOY revenue. Stuck with legacy technology knowledge no one wants in other companies with age that's discriminated in tech companies.

I am feeling like biggest fool now and learned loyalty never pays.

Hard Lessons-

Self serve first. Corporate companies are not your friend. They are there to make money even if US citizens suffer. Cheap Indian 'engineer' will one day take your job anyway.
Keep your self relevant by learning market relevant technologies. In today's time, stick to open source technologies. Do not work on proprietary technologies. In case you are stuck, have an exit plan.
Do not be lured by false future promises. Stick to what can be compensated in present. No one knows future, not even your boss or his boss.
You will be taken advantage of if you allow that t happen. Fight for your rights diplomatically if personal situation allows else have an exit plan ready.
Do not stay for more than 2 years in a place unless you see string future growth
Maintain a work life balance. I regret this as time lost will never come back.

Try getting side income, you never know when your side hustle will turn out to be life saver.
Save as much as you can and invest wisely.

End.

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Post ID: @OP+1rvUuiw4

25 replies (most recent on top)

This started with a reply to a reply and grew into an orthogonal perspective to the OP.

Why not stay at a company for many years ?. Let’s say a new graduate is interested in routing protocols. It will take years to learn, master and develop new algorithms in OSPF.

In general terms, for the vast majority of software engineers jumping jobs every so many years will both dramatically increase their skill set and therefore employability as well as dramatically increase their income.

In specific terms, Cisco is famous for hiring PhDs with specialties in algorithms associated with networking and after a few months of bug fixing in reading power supply voltages and fan rates they quit to work where they can actually use their talents. Not all specialties have enough open roles to accommodate everyone's "interests."

Career options from a software specific perspective:

  1. You can go vertical and develop massive skills in a very narrow area. These people don't care about 99% of what it takes to make something that uses what they know, but you can't build things to solve specific problems without these people. If you go this route chose a specialty with broad applications so you can do your thing at a range of companies in a range of industries. From audio to video to radios to 10Gbase-T interfaces to disk drives to anything else involving a signals, signal processing can be a great area to specialize. OSPF? A surprise graduate thesis yielding an open source implementation could end your whole career path then you become the engineering equivalent of a great musician with a PhD playing guitar in the subway.
  1. You can go horizontal, being a generalist building systems skills. You may specialize in certain things but you're interested in everything and develop enough knowledge in other areas to communicate with those from bullet point 1 to tie together a range of specialties to create complex systems. Each vertical person might contribute 10,000 lines of critical code but you may need another 10,000,000 lines to make something useful to a customer, and someone needs to bring all the pieces together into a coherent system. Without good people from bullet points 1 and 3 this job quickly becomes impossible so you have to be very choosy about the companies and people you work with to be successful.
  1. You can be like most people and be a point. They don't grow in any direction, and only if they they are lucky will they be employed at 65 doing what they did at 25. Get the ones that can at least learn the most basic best practices at 25 and with leadership providing significant guidance and solid process they'll write much of the 10,000,000 lines in bullet point 2 and the resulting systems will generally work. As this represents so many people they're a dime a dozen and therefore the easiest to lay off in bad times. Becoming management after a time is their best defense against pricing themselves out of the market, but they don't have the skills of people from bullet point 2 so they try to do technical leadership with no useful skills.

Other considerations you might not understand if you only worked at Cisco:

Value soft skills in addition to hard skills. Organization, communication, negotiation and persuasion among others are skills critical to the success of projects. I could write an encyclopedia of failures at Cisco because people did not have these skills. Sadly that would go next to the encyclopedia of failures at Cisco because people did not have the hard skills either.

Work somewhere where projects are bounded in time and budget. You'll have to spend more time up front understanding what it is you are doing so you can see a viable path to delivery early on. I've seen Cisco increase the employees on a project by a factor of five and the time by a factor of twelve so the budget was overrun by a factor of 60, and what they produced still didn't work. This isn't "a" failure, it's a collection of epic failures that wouldn't be possible elsewhere. People find it far easier to hear their 80 hours a week for years was heroic rather than their 80 hours a week for years was wasted so a kind word from management easily dissolves their will to make the changes needed to improve their situation.

There is far more to cover, like what skills are eternal but you need to improve upon for an entire career, and skills that change far too frequently because their developers didn't figure out what problem they were trying to solve and they keep getting replaced (common in the development of frameworks.) IOS, IOS-XR, IOS-XE, NX-OS, etc... represent failures across this spectrum.

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Post ID: @5eth+1rvUuiw4

Why not stay at a company for many years ?. Let’s say a new graduate is interested in routing protocols. It will take years to learn, master and develop new algorithms in OSPF.

A lot of them stay at their current job because their group may be well organized and working on interesting technologies.

Cisco has the best training courses and on-site training available when compared to other companies.

Culture also differs from group to group within a company. Culture is set by the manager, directors and VPs. All depends on their own beliefs and personality.

I do agree Cisco has changed a lot with LR every two quarters in the last 10 years.

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Post ID: @4akl+1rvUuiw4

The 2hrs guy is right IMO. Why the fu-k work your behind off for Cisco? If you’ve been working your butt off for 20 years like the OP maintains then he/she should have woken up and smelt the fu--ing coffee long ago. I’m sorry you got LRd but anyone who is going the extra mile and missing family event whilst you increase Cisco share price working 14 hrs days thinking this is going to be long term recognised is a deluded fool.

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Post ID: @4dcn+1rvUuiw4

What kind of self-aggrandizing nonsense is this? Lol this tirade received 80 upvotes?!!

There are a lot of people on here that need some serious mental help. Like now.

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Post ID: @4zvl+1rvUuiw4

there is other side to that as well
when I joined - being 25 years old , there was all in front of me and my career ..now I see all friends gone or retired where I am the one turning the lights off .. pretty lonely with young thinking they have it all and know all - just thinking how little they in fact do or know but how fast they jump to "raise or I quit" and at some point I gave up - pay them more just not to see them ...

25-years later with sr.director - I disrespect myself .. for what I let this place to be. Maybe I was great engineer but cleraly these that inspired me and made me better person left long time ago ....

there is no end to this story ... I am still here handing over blue and pink slips in the name of corporate america

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Post ID: @4nzq+1rvUuiw4

The best advice for young folks is to leave after 5 years. Cisco's vision comes in 18 month blocks and that vision is doomed from the beginning. There are so many better run businesses out there.

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Post ID: @4fyk+1rvUuiw4
You thought they only got rid of slackers...

Cisco really needs some kind of interview questions to see if people can grasp negative numbers. Cisco has a lot of people either breaking code or making objectively wrong technical decisions that are collectively costing the company a fortune, and it's not the deadwood doing this, and since dashboards measure activity rather than effectiveness many of the worst are promoted.

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Post ID: @4zdb+1rvUuiw4

Wise words and really tough that it had to end that way for you…it's a real gut punch to think of how you probably bent over backwards for the company so many times and likely did so at the expense of your friends, family, and your own well being. Su-ks really…

Young folks — find something you have an aptitude for, that you actually enjoy, that is meaningful in some way, and ideally a situation where you feel like you have some control. Live below your means — it gives you options, and options give you a bit more peace of mind and power. Your time will absolutely come where you’ll be glad you didn’t create an unsustainable lifestyle with people having power over your every move...

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Post ID: @3qln+1rvUuiw4

Best of luck!

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Post ID: @3ntl+1rvUuiw4

We are going to look at this, shrug our shoulders, and not care the same way you did with everyone else that was laid off before you. You thought they only got rid of slackers and you were immune huh? Funny how everyone’s tune changes once they realize they are no more special than anyone else.

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Post ID: @3qzz+1rvUuiw4

i works 2 hrs in the days and not one ever even the knowed

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Post ID: @2xnr+1rvUuiw4

"I was let go". sour grapes?

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Post ID: @2vdu+1rvUuiw4
A younger engineer may soon outperform stagnating senior engineers.

May soon? Seriously, for aggressive kids versus your average middle aged this has not been uncommon throughout the ages, and it isn't at all limited to engineering.

You're less likely to see it in software at Cisco because almost no kid with a clue will sign up to decades of mostly bug fixing in an ancient language at a legacy company as the foundation for a high trajectory career, and the few who missed the red flags leave quickly once they see the place from the inside. The corollary is old people who keep sc--wing up so bad that the majority of the budget has been spent on bug fixing for ages don't know how incompetent they are. You are the Dunning-Kruger effect.

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Post ID: @2mkv+1rvUuiw4
the recent layoffs had nothing to do with performance.

That's exactly what Cisco states. Business decision.

We all know it's performance based: performance per salary $ plus projected performance over the next years. Stagnation is bad. A younger engineer may soon outperform stagnating senior engineers.

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Post ID: @1ija+1rvUuiw4

I was blue badge for a very long time, and was a pretty decent engineer; and loyal. Never, never, thought I would be let go. Great team, great boss. Fast forward post-promotion six months, my boss moved on, my new boss did not really see my value; so got the boot!

Went to a medium sized enterprise who was going through a sh!tstorm with Cisco licensing issues. Moved their core off to another vendor from Cisco; then took 90% of the Cisco licensing off the network, including those cr@ppy DNA boxes. Now our Cisco budget is 15% of what it was when I was hired. Next and last stop is get rid of the Cisco UC crud.

Support is super garbage from the outside. Garbage for the return. Some good engineers here and there, but for the most part; the support is outsourced and we know more than the TAC does. Chuck, if you are reading this; MM ruined the TAC and Cisco! Really just a trainwreck.

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Post ID: @1hvc+1rvUuiw4

Luckily, I'm learning this now. Cisco actually taught me this lesson after learning that the recent layoffs had nothing to do with performance.

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Post ID: @1snj+1rvUuiw4

“ The people that work there are the leftovers from the good talent that has already found better opportunities elsewhere.”

TRUTH!

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Post ID: @1hfc+1rvUuiw4

I was let go before Christmas. At the time, I was applying to every single role I could find to get out. Now I'm employed again, I realize and see clearly that Cisco is toxic and I regret working there.

Their technology is old. The people that work there are the leftovers from the good talent that has already found better opportunities elsewhere.

Its a sinking ship.

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Post ID: @1qta+1rvUuiw4

I am reminded how i threw an ill fitting Cisco tee shirt in a dumpster in Vegas after some immature Cisco raw raw session.
Treat people like adults and they will act like adults!

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Post ID: @1aau+1rvUuiw4

To the OP. I wish you well but you should have had this figured out 20 years ago.

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Post ID: @1ils+1rvUuiw4

Let us all harken back to the 1980s, when Corporate America introduced "right-sizing", and introduced the death knell for employee loyalty: THAT was what spawned the dawn of The Headhunter, and handed BACK the power of choice to the employee.

Loyalty, in either direction, has been gone for 40+ years ... Grumpy Olde Man

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Post ID: @1mnh+1rvUuiw4

To the OP, I respect you. Your wisdom and life experience is something the average person needs to take heed to. I wish you all the best for your future ahead. Best in health, happiness and business(side hustles becoming main hustles).

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Post ID: @1csi+1rvUuiw4

I have met NCG or RCG who are smart than you think. Cisco is only a jumping board for them. As soon as they get a chance, they move out of Cisco immediately.

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Post ID: @1qoj+1rvUuiw4

Swim in your own lane, kick others out ASAP if breached.

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Post ID: @lkv+1rvUuiw4

Great advice here. And save your money, live below your means, so can create those side hustles. Definitely gives me a better feeling to have my rentals to fall back on, if needed.

In the end we are all expendable, as much as we hate to admit it. Life does go on, in many cases you will be thankful something has pushed you forward. Human nature to stay safe until it is too late.

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Post ID: @amz+1rvUuiw4

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