Thread regarding Wells Fargo & Co. layoffs

A false dichotomy. All is lost once the cord is ripped. Soon.

@1dtg+1sFgauF8, Offshore teams work from 11:30AM India Time to 8:30PM India Time including 1 hour of lunch break (that's 8 hours a day). I am in California (West Coast Time Zone), so the offshore teams go home 8:00AM US Pacific Time. The offshore teams said they have to leave before the rush hour and the taxi is waiting outside, and so they won't stay after 8:00am US Pacific Time. We (California team) have to attend 6am calls every morning to accommodate the offshore team's inflexible schedule. Some developers skip the daily calls a lot, like 2-3 times a week, saying they have emergencies every week. When we ask them to not skip too many daily calls, they get agitated and start arguing. The offshore teams I work with are never dedicated nor courteous in any way, they are lazy and obnoxious. They don't complete their tasks on time, and they make many mistakes. The offshore teams simply don't care about anything except for getting their paychecks.

But yah I’m bitter that I committed my entire career to an employer

This is on you. Unless you’re 60+, you should have known loyalty gets you nowhere. Take care of yourself!!

If you work on an app team like I do, you probably are familiar with firewall rule certifications for your application.

I recently did a firewall rule certification and asked for some rules to be corrected. The state side firewall team was laid off and the work shifted to India.

What did the India team do? They didn’t correct the firewall rules as I instructed. They removed tag for my application from the rules so they’d no longer show up on reporting for my application instead of just fixing the issue following the changes I said were needed.

Being able to afford the cost of living somewhere doesn't mean that you have the same quality of life as somewhere else with a much higher cost of living. If that were the case then why not relocate to Bangalore? Relocate to Zimbabwe?

Does anyone know 1) what they typically make and 2) how that translates into our standards? For example, even if they make $50k a year, it may be equivalent to someone making $150k here. Also, in my view, unless they’re getting paid like 1/10 of our pays, it’s not worth the quality/efficiency loss and everything. It’s also a threat to business continuity and customer service.

If we’re shipping everything to there to pay them 1/3 or 3/5 of what we earn here, I think the management is making a huge mistake. It’s not as if they’ll remain low paid forever.

Some of you are not getting it. Yes, this is Hudson Yards’ fault, yes they need to make a living, too and yes we are educated and understand the simple concept of cost of living vs. labor, etc. These IND people are not qualified for the complexities of this company. Do you see posts about the PHLPNS? No. I’ve had to put in 3 requests and they don’t understand what I’m asking them to do and keep marking the request complete without making the corrections. They are rude, arrogant and clueless all at the same time! To someone’s point below, the cost savings are NOT being passed on to the customer. The savings are NOT being added to stock dividends. The consumers are NOT receiving better, faster service. In fact, we’ve had outages and mishaps.

I work with an offshore dev team. They are expected to work over 12 hours a day. There are some folks on this team that lack business context sometimes, but they have been dedicated andwork hard.

I do not like the system that allows it because it's not good for the US economy, and their pay doesn't contribute to our social security system. I would prefer we are all US. However, these offshore people are in the same need of way to support their families. They've been extremely courteous, kind and accommodating when working with their state-side counterparts.

just like someone in des Moines makes less than someone in NYC for the same role. It's about cost of living. Our India friends may be making a fraction of what we make, but it provides a very good living for them and would be equivalent to what many are making here.

This thread is useless.

“What Managers Everywhere Must Know About Caste”

https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/what-managers-everywhere-must-know-about-caste/

@izm+1sFgauF8, wake up! We don't share the same cultural value and characters you have.

@1kjg+1sFgauF8, Wow, you are unhappy that this conversation is not going in the direction that fits your political narrative? You are trying to manipulate the conversation and steer us into the direction YOU want? I think YOU are the one who is off base.

Wow, so many of these replies are so off base. Many of you have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe you should spend some time in other countries and not as tourists.

But if you want to blame folks , blame Hudson Yard and your very own TK. Just look at her posts, while she needs to take down time and spend it a golf tournaments , vacations, planting more lemon trees, many others are worried about their livelihoods, kids expenses, roof over their heads, etc. Maybe it’s time for folks to protest outside TK’s home and bring light to all your woes and let the news cover it like the college protests. Or you can just whine here and make racist uneducated comments . Maybe it’s time for the common workers to make the executives feel uncomfortable in public settings… like Auntie Maxine says.

First off, it’s not true that they only make 33% as it is more
Second, many of us would be ok if we didn’t have to train our replacements.
Third, many of us would be ok if they could let us know when it is happening and when it will stop. This is not the case now.

I don’t have a problem with any overseas employee. But yah I’m bitter that I committed my entire career to an employer who will throw me out like trash and send work that I was passionate about to somebody who is going to do the bare minimum. A job that takes a good year to even be somewhat proficient at. My job got shipped overseas months after I asked that a specific account not be sent to our overseas peers because I had to keep cleaning up after them, costing us twice as much time and effort. Hope everybody is doing ok, on both sides of the ocean. Not my problem anymore.

Why is this a surprise? Watch Gung Ho from the early 80s. Told me loud, and clear this is our future. I was very little. This bell has been ringing since the 60s and 70s.

Why is it always Indians are taking our jobs! and never *Capitalists are giving Indians our jobs!"? Why? WHY?

Hopefully we will find a lower cost alternative to India so we can increase shareholder value even more.

It's a catch-22 w/ offshore labor.

On one hand there is a well capable, educated and willing workforce offering no drama and will do what is asked without issue. Offshore labor is a utility kn--e: if something needs to be cut, it will cut.

On the other hand the offshore worker has no connection with Wells Fargo whatsoever in the local community, no social investment of any kind. There is usually a 3rd party involved (Tata consultancy or the like) which further removes offshore labor from the core company the employee is serving. This type of employment prevents an offshore worker from being able to vocalize personal concerns, there is no team building beyond shallow "thank you's" and again, no incentives for social investment at any level. Sometimes small talk and bonding matter to build trust and understanding when work becomes nightmarish and complex. That bond/trust is so thin today it is laughable.

Alas, there will always be a new enemy to find. The enemy at WF and in all larger corporations is systemic and one that is cyclical. US labor's history repeats itself over and over, so whatever is happening today won't always be the case.

The key for any one of us is to be above the noise, keep learning and not expect anything from the company.

@axx+1sFgauF8, Well said. I agree 100%.

OP- While your statements may appear to be truthful to you they are flawed. For example you say the overseas person makes 1/3 less than their US counterpart you asked how we can expect to work as hard? Well first off the cost of living is about a 1/3 of the cost of living in the US. So they are making what is equivalent to US or more. The cost of a 1 bedroom apt in NYC is about $4,200 a month the equivalent in India is about $260 a month. Secondly is Wells Passing on the savings to its US clients? Does a client deserve 1/3 less of customer service, do they deserve 1/3 less of oversight, 1/3 less of compliance protection? I don’t think so. So before you go stating information you think is logical, think and ask yourself why can’t our money grubbing leaders live in India and make 1/3 less their own salary?

When the world switches to complete AI mode, ceo's and managers will be the first people to be replaced. It is hard truth to swallow.

I don't blame I&P in the slightest. 1000% of the blame rests on Hudson Yards. THAT is what we need to outsource. Our current executives have no integrity and are so focused on short term gains that they are ready and willing to sacrifice the entire company just so long as they personally get rich first.