Does anyone have any experience with an “Informal PIP”, either as an employee or as a manager? How did it play out?
19 replies (most recent on top)
I’ve seen a lot in but never yet seen an undeserved PIP. Most groups understand why a coworker gets on a PIP and generally agree with it. Sadly it seems that most people that are PIPed are often the life of the party. So we miss them even as we understand the reasons.
False PIPs are extremely psychologically damaging. I see a lawsuit with serious legs when it comes to terrorizing an employee with false allegations in order to push them out.
@4cdl, if you were instructed to put someone on PIP, you are not a manager, you're a puppet master. That is so typical at BNYM.
As a longtime former manager, I can confirm that once you’re on a PIP at BNYM, you’re almost assuredly toast.
However, I will entertain the remote possibility that you have a cool manager who sees the need for urgent improvement but knows once they go the formal route, you won’t be salvageable, because BNYM isn’t about coaching employees up. (And if you have a PIP on your record, good luck moving internally.) They just move them out.
That’s a terrible indictment of HR and the management philosophy or lack thereof, but it’s true.
Whenever I was instructed to place someone on a PIP, the decision to let them them go had already been made. It’s a cr-ppy way to treat employees (and puts the manager in a lousy spot) but there you go. HR made us do it. And then, when the person is let go, we have to tell them it’s not performance-related. !!!
If you want to understand how toxic an environment this place is, understand that the people posting this nonsense about “just work harder” like 2zea+1svd88Qd are clearly the gaslighting incompetent senior people who caught wind of this site and these posts and are trying to do damage control. Ask yourself, have you ever worked harder? Have you taken on the work of five people that were let go last year and now are given vague feedback about performance?
Let’s face it, BNY only continues to exist as it does because of its implicit full backing from the govt. The moral and ethical rot is bar none.
Work harder? Think about how inane a suggestion that is when previous top performers (that aren’t connected) are suddenly told about being on a PIP. No material evidence of any drop off in performance or behavior by employees.
Quite simply, they got the tap on the shoulder from the corrupt EC, needing to make cuts. All well within a company’s purview. But what do they do so they don’t have to announce layoffs? This “informal PIP” nonsense. Even worse that they have their tools now on this site trying to make it seem like nothing is going on, you just have to work harder than you already are, after taking on the work of the 5 people that were let go last year.
Working harder is always the best solution. But you won’t find that, or any other positive advice here. Best of luck in developing a work ethic.
Expensive to hire and fire employees? Not when you’re looking to make substantial cuts and do so “for cause” by simply claiming someone needs to go on PIP. Unethical at best, labor violation at worst. Hilariously naive to think this gang of thieves is simply looking at merit. The only merit that matters is how close you are to the leadership. Cronyism is rampant - those with the friends in high places can coast without so much as a hint of critical feedback (and get promotions), while those without are hung out to dry.
As a word of advice to everyone, take anything being said in favor or positively about the company or leadership with multiple grains of salt. Ask yourself why and how folks who are supposedly employed and love working here are finding time in their day to care enough to come on a layoff site board to boost what is at best a toxic workplace, at worst a highly unethical and corrupt one.
Paranoia strikes deep. Into your heart it will creep…
It’s very expensive both to hire and to fire employees. Literally everybody at the bank wants you to do well because we all are invested in you.
The PIP program is a last ditch effort to salvage a problem employee and nobody gets there without serious performance problems. It isn’t “PIP and Go”, it’s PIP… Personnel Improvement Program”.
I’ve seen people make an honest effort to become productive employees and go on to thrive. But it’s true that most don’t.. I’ve noticed a pattern of those who mess up on a PIP who then go on elsewhere to fail.
Nothing is formal until written. PIP is a trap. Start looking for another place to work. You will thank yourself later from escaping the culture and seeing other benefits.
Why is 42 posting on every thread multiple post why he should be working
Why does 42 think he knows anything going on at the bank when he no longer works at the bank?
how can we get him the mental help he obviously needs
Absolutely nothing is “informal.” Informal elevator talk can be held against you - so you better be believe an “informal PIP” will as well. There is plenty of research out there that shows that if you are on a PIP it is nearly a guarantee you are on a plan to be pushed out. Calling it informal it is to keep you less defensive/combative during this period of time. I am nearly certain HR is already aware of this “informal PIP” and this manager is already checking his/her boxes with the process.
Every situation can certainly be different from the next, however these are my pointers to you:
- In a non-combative fashion, capture the “informal PIP” conversation in an email and that you want to learn of all the resources available. Also confirm that HR Business partner is also aware.
- In writing make sure your concerns are captured and use words like equity. The last thing they want is a lawsuit. Make sure they know you are also equipped for their game.
“To ensure this is an equitable process, can we layout the plan …” “To ensure we uphold our company’s values of equity, can you say more on why this informal PIP has been initiated?”
- He / She will spell out what they need from you by x date. Make sure you deliver way in advance asking for feedback. If you submit on the due date, it will be easy for them to say “you missed the ask”, “this didn’t capture the full deliverable”, etc. Don’t give them that power.
- Do everything is a positive fashion. I feel your fury in being a robot - but do not let them say you are creating an environment that is hostile. When you are on a PIP it is like you are on a psych ward when you know you are not supposed to be there - so fighting with the guards will do more harm and good. Be a robot.
- The name of the PIP game is the time to leave your role - if you can and want, find something internally but best to go external.
- Exercise every day even if 20-30 minutes a day.
Best of luck to you. F Corporate America with their modern psychological slavery tactics.
mmmmmm….. I’m thinking RTO Refusnik…
There is. O such thing as an informal PIP, and for that matter there is no such thing as a “Pip and Go”. PIP is a last chance which is offered to a non performing employee. Many employees go on to be stellar performers after successfully work through their issues.
Take it seriously and remember that the real participation trophy is keeping your job.
No such thing as an informal PIP. Only some wag trying to scare people. No wonder people getting nervous breakdowns from these fake posts. Sick hobby you have sc--wing with peoples mental health.
Yes, but what exactly is the question? There's lots of speculation in these responses.
Hey corporate tool @xjy+1svd88Qd - tell me, how does one go from being a good performer to all of a sudden (right around when quarterly numbers or stock price is doing nothing), within a month, get told they are going on a PIP? Do you really think we’re all this stupid? Or do you have to come on here to try and deflect and do damage control because your masters told you to?
These comments lol. So because you get put on a PIP the mgr is the issue and not your performance? Bahaah ok. So as a mgr who has had to put several employees on one, you know for their bad performance, its a last opportunity for you to actually make an effort to improve in whatever areas you are struggling in. If you don't within the PIP timeframe, we can extend it or move to corrective action.
The best advice is to seek a new job externally. Don’t give an inch either - if you are on an informal PIP, email your manager so there is written evidence - ask what is the reason for the new feedback, that is completely different to the previous? How did things change so drastically? Please tell detail specifics surrounding the steps to improve performance. Please provide actionable steps to no longer be under a PIP.
Second, if it moves to a formal PIP, do not agree to anything unless you have been given sufficient, actionable information per above.
At the end of the day, they’ll get rid of you one way or another, make it as difficult as possible, until you have found new work.
It's a trap ! Please get out as early as you can. These Companies do not have any other strategy to make profits. It clearly shows they have failed miserably in the markets. They cannot lay you off so they are coming up with these sinister plans and shady practices to hide their failures. It's not your fault the Bank is in loss due to management's incompetence. You would be 1st put on Informal PIP and then they trick you into a Formal PIP. I am out of this horrible place and feel sorry for those whose careers have been destroyed and dont know how many careers will be destroyed in future due to Greedy people in leadership positions. I mean how could these people even sleep at night.