Thread regarding Wells Fargo & Co. layoffs

Firing for using mouse jigglers

Mouse jigglers' pretending to work fired by bank

US banking giant Wells Fargo has sacked a number of employees following claims that staff were faking keyboard activity to fool the company into thinking they were working when they were not.
It is not yet clear how the issue was discovered or whether it was specifically related to people working from home.
The US bank said staff had been fired or resigned "after review of allegations involving simulation of keyboard activity creating impression of active work".
New rules recently came into effect in the US which mean that brokers working from home must be inspected every three years.
A spokeswoman for the firm said: "Wells Fargo holds employees to the highest standards and does not tolerate unethical behaviour."
In 2022, Wells Fargo said it had adopted a hybrid flexible working model with staff permitted to work from home some of the time.
Some large companies have been using increasingly sophisticated tools to monitor employees since remote work expanded during the Covid pandemic.
Such services can track keystrokes and eye movements, take screenshots and log which websites are visited.
But technology has also evolved to evade the surveillance, including so-called "mouse jigglers" which are aimed at making computers appear to be in active use which are widely available.
According to Amazon, where they can be found for less than $10, thousands have been sold in the last month.
Bloomberg, which first reported the move based on a filing Wells Fargo made to the US Financial Industry Regulatory Authority, said that more than a dozen people had been affected.
The BBC has confirmed six instances in which staff had been discharged after review, and one case in which a person resigned voluntarily after being confronted with the claims.
Many of them had worked for Wells Fargo for less than five years.
Many firms, especially in the financial industry, are pushing staff to return to the office.
Remote work has remained popular since the pandemic but numbers have been drifting lower.
In the US, just under 27% of paid days last month were work-from-home days, compared with more than 60% at the height of the pandemic in 2020, according to research by professors at the Instituto Tecnológico Autónomo de México (ITAM) Business School, Stanford and University of Chicago.
As of this spring, about 13% of full-time employees in the US were fully remote, and another 26% enjoyed a hybrid arrangement, according to the researchers.

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Post ID: @OP+1t1LGRoR

42 replies (most recent on top)

Again, why use software? Why not just tape a stick or ruler to your mouse and the other end to an oscillating fan. When the fan rotates it moves your mouse.

If you need software just lookup powershell or python scripts. Everyone has those installed on desktop

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Post ID: @5xck+1t1LGRoR

They did nothing wrong. Period. After all its Wells Fargo.

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Post ID: @4jem+1t1LGRoR

Has anyone recently wrote their own mouse jiggler code we can use? I'm sure it won't be picked up by the scanner since it was hand written recently by someone. Send us the open source code so we can modify it slightly to claim it as an example coding exercise for knowledge and education purpose. Thanks!

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Post ID: @4pog+1t1LGRoR

You script kiddies know that they can scan for non-standard software or commands, right? This is one of the easiest ways to find people. Telemetry and monitoring tools are getting smarter, faster and broader every day.

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Post ID: @4fhn+1t1LGRoR

This site took down my post about the company having tech to know how to detect these, I didn’t mention anything confidential, no names, nothing, just a generic post of be careful. Interesting.

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Post ID: @3edu+1t1LGRoR

@sgl+1t1LGRoR
Its an arms race.
Mouse jiggler > Monitor away time during shift > Intermittent mouse jiggler > Monitor keyboard input > Script to fake keyboard input > Intermittent screenshot comparison > Script to open and toggle between various windows

If the job is getting done and you are happy with the time it took them, who cares.

If you are worried about corporate theft, look at the top of your employment who have been giving themselves an average of 20% pay increases every year.

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Post ID: @3bzr+1t1LGRoR

Been using a jiggler here for several years.

All else fails, your mouse atop a mechanical watch with a sweeping second hand does the same.

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Post ID: @3voy+1t1LGRoR

Another way to get out of paying people severance. If you are doing your job who cares if you use a keyboard or mouse jiggler.

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Post ID: @3opg+1t1LGRoR

Journalism at Bloomberg has gone down the hill if this is the best they can do if they are report 12 people who got fired due to mouse jigglers. Whatever happened to true journalism where real interesting stories about the world markets and financial institutions. It seems the new young journalists are taking the easy way out by writing these nonsense stories. This is not what Bloomberg is known for. This is like a financial gossip column story. Even on the radio, when wanting to listen to financial news, all I get is some guy betting on some sport teams and wanting a scope. Some of these employees on Bloomberg should retire by now if they continuously ask every guest about sports. It's ridiculous and I'm surprised Mr. Bloomberg hasn't put a stop to this nonsense.

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Post ID: @2xpk+1t1LGRoR

Certainly the mouse jigglers were not only used by Wells but by numerous other companies' employees. So where are the articles on those losing their jobs from other comanies?

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Post ID: @2ozl+1t1LGRoR

"correct location" 😂 anyone wasting time on that horse S should be fired immediately. Who gives a flying F? No one that's not a monster a hole.

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Post ID: @2jpe+1t1LGRoR

The dead giveaway is NEVER being away during your shift. It’s not realistic to do that shift after shift and it’s easy to see that on reports. Those reports are available all the way down to the front line supervisors.

It’s really easy to see who isn’t logging in from their correct location as well. Not sure why there hasn’t been a mass firing for that yet.

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Post ID: @2yaw+1t1LGRoR

@1hzc+1t1LGRoR, I fail to see the connection between your post and this thread.

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Post ID: @2taa+1t1LGRoR

At my old firm we created automation tools via visual basic and SQL we were able to link different software tools to test what was possible. The best part is we spoke directly to the mainframe. Management sanctioned our ideas and the IT dept. Was born. Now everyone worries about AI. So build your own tool to automate money movement, account openings, and automatic form filling. Then patent it. Forget mouse jigglers . Use AI tools that YOU control. I am sure someone is sharp and can do as I have described. Mouse jigglers are childsplay compared to AI.

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Post ID: @1hzc+1t1LGRoR

So I can speak for certainty those 12 were the pilot. more will follow.

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Post ID: @1pfn+1t1LGRoR

I never knew a mouse jiggler existed until Otto Chan mentioned it in a Town Hall and said that "we will be watching you" That was years ago.

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Post ID: @1rud+1t1LGRoR

@1ytx wait till they decide your AI is more cost effective than employing you.

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Post ID: @1swl+1t1LGRoR

I used automation tools I built to do many tasks at other firms. Also ..AI is potentially good for doing money movement and other repetitive functions while at work or elsewhere. A mouse jiggler is a useless tool because you aren't doing work.AI changes the game and allows you to do work via a useful tool. If I were any firm I'd be worried that employees can use AI that they utilize to do work and not know whether the employee or AI is ding the task.

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Post ID: @1ytx+1t1LGRoR

For all of you who are defending the mouse jigglers, I sat beside one for 5 years. She would leave the office for up to 4--5 hours to do G*d knows what, take naps, get her hair done, who knows what else. Then she would cry to the manager that she needed help and he actually sent people over to help her. I once pointed out that she'd been gone for hours, and he goes over and sees her computer shows she was there, so he gets mad at me and said she just stepped away! No respect for people like that.

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Post ID: @1iza+1t1LGRoR

I've been using a mouse mover since 2019, pre-covid. A couple of hours a day sometimes more. But I do all my work on time. We are not making dresses here, there is no reason to be staring at the PC 8 hours a day.

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Post ID: @1oms+1t1LGRoR

Once we had an executive who forced employees to create fake customer accounts. Since then, WF started going downhill and cannot stop sliding.

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Post ID: @1xaw+1t1LGRoR

The quality standard of Wells Fargo keeps going down, down and down. How low can it go down? I blame Charlie and his cronies for demoralizing employees. A fish rots from the head down.

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Post ID: @1mze+1t1LGRoR

For all the noobs - this is not the first time people have been fired for this and most certainly will not be the last. First time I remember was before Covid. When Cyber was named EIS they found dozens of people doing this with software and scripts. All fired.

The external variety are slightly more difficult to detect but telemetry data for how they behave, and differ from legitimate keyboard use, is getting much easier to determine.

The only reason this firing got any airplay was the FINRA disclosure. This is happening pretty regularly so if you have a mouse jiggler or know someone who does but haven’t been caught yet, chances are very high that they’re just collecting enough data to make it impossible to deny. Do yourself a favor 1 do your job or don’t but don’t keep up appearances, that’s where they’ll get you.

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Post ID: @1ozs+1t1LGRoR

Or just jiggle your mouse the old fashion way. You millennials are so lazy.

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Post ID: @1zms+1t1LGRoR

The fact that they needed to buy something to keep their screen alive is reason to fire them.

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Post ID: @1gsn+1t1LGRoR

@1sae+1t1LGRoR

A random QQer here and there no, but thousands of people doing it clearly do hurt the org.

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Post ID: @1ngw+1t1LGRoR

I purchased my mouse jiggler with appreciation credits on the Wells Ware site. Even has a nice Stage Coach stenciled on it and Wells branded batteries, so it can be used in stealth. DF stupid sales people

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Post ID: @1wpw+1t1LGRoR

Charlie jiggled his mouse while listening to a convicted felon give a talk.

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Post ID: @1gsx+1t1LGRoR

@1sae+1t1LGRoR, Don't be an Id--t.

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Post ID: @1lkv+1t1LGRoR

@1phz+1t1LGRoR And 10 times as many +0’s are corrupt sheetbags.

Quiet quitters don’t hurt the org. They hurt their coworkers. The org doesn’t give two F’s about how little you do other than they just want to cut expenses. The proof is in the $1bn set-aside for severance and separations. But you keep those blinders up and continue to think you’re “sticking to the man”. Fvcking Dolts.

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Post ID: @1sae+1t1LGRoR

I am sure most of them are from JP. But WF instead of worrying about mouse jugglers, should be more worried about JP hires sc--wing the entire company.

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Post ID: @1ojk+1t1LGRoR

@msw+1t1LGRoR, you are right, this is definitely a trust issue. Before Charlie and his cronies point the finger at those mouse jiggler users in WIM, they should question themselves why many employees are quiet quitting these days. It's not just upper management, many middle managers are also corrupt.

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Post ID: @1phz+1t1LGRoR

Mouse jiggler is not new at Wells Fargo. Most of the Tech employees (especially in India) have been using a mouse jiggler for a long time. I think they are the ones who found mouse jigglers first.

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Post ID: @1tod+1t1LGRoR

This is going to backfire on them big time. I know it.

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Post ID: @ydo+1t1LGRoR

This just tells me this company has major trust issues between employees and managers. Even if there is a flexible work policy, managers still expect employees to work the strict daylight hours (9-5). Then what is the flexible work policy for - just for show?

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Post ID: @msw+1t1LGRoR

Who the heck would want to work for this company if it's monitoring their employees like Hi---r. If they want to fire people, then just do it. Why bother doing all this sneaky monitoring of employees? No one will want to work for this company nor will people want to do business with them. We live in a world of flexible hours, work and life balance, diversity, etc. Please remind this company it's 2024 and not 1924!!!
This is just stupid!!! Wonder if they monitored screens and mouse movement during COVID years? Didn't companies encourage people to work remotely and have a work/life balance. Weren't there many studies that showed people were more productive when working hybrid or remotely? And so what if they have a mouse jiggler, it doesn't prove they aren't working. Because we are humans, we can take more then 15 min to think about how to resolve an issue while staring at a simulation or a spreadsheet or power point graph to study it and figure out how to solve the problem. There is no mouse movement needed there but the annoying program does screen saver and you lose your thought process. Hence, the mouse jiggler is needed.

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Post ID: @xvp+1t1LGRoR

It's not just staff employees. I know that many managers in my area also have been using mouse jigglers. In fact, one of them taught me how to find a good mouse jiggler. When you send an IM to those managers, sometimes it takes them more than 1 hour to respond you and their icon does not indicate they are away. That's because they are using a mouse jiggler.

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Post ID: @qtc+1t1LGRoR

I mean why are we worried about mouse jigglers and instead be worried about their managers who clearly didn’t notice that they hadn’t been producing; or if they were producing in spite of the mouse jigglers, maybe not enough projects had been assigned and clearly headcount is inflated. Personally I might think about keeping the mouse jiggler for the creativity and find a better way to engage them. Good grief!

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Post ID: @sgl+1t1LGRoR

An undetectable mouse jiggler is not enough. We need an undetectable tool that will send fake screenshots and fake keyboard strokes.

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Post ID: @hki+1t1LGRoR

Wonder how much the company spent hiring staff or contractors, and software to detect the mouse jiggle, only to fire a dozen employees. For a company of this size to do this for a dozen employees says to me, this company has some BIG time issues. And it's financial issues. This must truly be an EMBARRASSMENT for this company that they did this to get ride of ONLY 12 employees. AND now it's all over the internet. What a WASTE of money and resources!!! Shouldn't the company instead put valuable resources and time selling their products and making money.

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Post ID: @pcv+1t1LGRoR

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