Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

PIP is still the Cisco preferred method for reducing headcount

Rubbish. It's not about the money, it's about EFFORT and RISK.
Putting somebody on PIP is a legal process, it's like preparing for a criminal trial. You need solid evidence, mail trails, demonstrable failings, etc. No manager wants to do that when for a few dollars, the problem can be paid to go away.
The second problem is that it's a confrontational legal process. You could end up in a court, with discovery, perjury laws and protracted court filings (much like divorce). This could uncover a LOT of dirty laundry that no manager would risk being aired. Much rather have the company fork out a bit more and have you eliminated because "your business function has disappeared". This is why celebrities pay out to hush up "bimbo explosions" whether they are true or not.

@2mrt+1tpSnci9 thanks for detail explanation of PIP process you went through at Cisco it helps to know

Everyone who says Cisco does not pay a severance if you are put on a PIP and terminated is, or at least used to be, wrong.

Why i am asking is any company can illegally choose this option for any reason and fire you without any severance if they want or is there a way we can fight this.

CA, and NC, are "at-will" states, and I think unless your state is different for remote workers, everyone in the US is given an employment letter that states that your job is "at-will", and you and Cisco both that the right to end the employment at any time for any reason. Cisco can simply fire you and not give you any severance at all, and it's not illegal.

I know a few people who have been PIP'd before in Cisco.

Back to my original statement about being PIP'd with no severance being wrong, I also know a few people who have been PIP'd at Cisco. I, too, was put on a PIP. While I've never been told how much the severance a PIP provides, everyone I know who left via a PIP was given some sort of severance. When I was put on a PIP, I asked HR about it, and I was told that a severance amount would be provided, but it was too early in the process to tell me how much. They've never been very transparent with that info in the 20 yrs I've been around Cisco. The reason I still don't know how much severance is given is because they announced the Workforce Reduction (WFR) in 2011 (aka LR) at the same time they announced the first voluntary early retirement (ER). Supposedly, based on the numbers of people who accepted the ER, would determine the number of people who would be let go in the WFR. The announcement was in Feb or Mar of '11, the ER was finalized in Apr or May, and then they figured out how many they were going to impact in the WFR in June. They announced it was either 5,500 or 6,500 (I can never keep the #'s straight between the '11 WFR and the '16 LR that had the biggest 2 number of reductions) and that impacted employees would be notified Tue - Thur, Aug 9-11th.

With all the sudden talent assessment stuff going on before LR this coming August am a bit nervous.

Cisco has been doing talent assessments, or performance reviews and the people deal, in Jun - July forever. This is NOTHING NEW. John Chambers subscribed to the Jack Welsh General Electric philosophy of getting rid of the bottom 5% every year, and back before 2011, people who were in the bottom 10% for the 2nd year were put on a PIP and the bottom 5% were managed out. I had embarrassed my new manager and got on his bad side, and that's how I got on the PIP list when the previous 3 yrs I was a top performer (2006 - 2008) under a manage who quit in 2008. Nothing had changed in my performance, but I went from near the top to the bottom 10% overnight (2009). The next year 2010, I was in the bottom 5% and put on a PIP in Aug. As @dtj+1tpSnci9 said, it's a process. I had weekly 1:1's w/ my new manager and I was given "goals" to achieve. Those goals got harder and harder, and further and further outside of my job description and functional expertise, in order to make me "not perform" so they could document why I was being fired as part of the PIP process. When the ER and WFR were announced in Apr/May of 2011, my weekly 1:1's became bi-weekly. By June, they had returned to monthly and I was no longer given any "goals" and my manage had stopped documenting anything related to performance. It was very obvious that I was no longer going to be PIP'd, but that I was going to be let go during the Aug '11 WFR, and I was. I came back in early 2013 to a different team and BU, and I've been back ever since. Now, the annual reductions due to LR's compared to the old PIP the bottom 5% Welsh method seem to be based more on age and compensation instead of poor performance, with just enough younger people to offset the age demographic.

That was a long story all to say that they've always done, at least in the US, mid-year assessments in early Dec and discussed in Jan, and year-end assessments done in Jun and discussed in July, and since 2008, reductions have been announced and people let go in Aug. During the JC era, reductions were announced in the 3rd or 4th quarter, with people being notified in Aug (Q1). Since the CR era, the announcement has been during the FY earnings call in Aug and people are notified in the next 1-3 days, sort of like ripping off the bandaid instead of slowly pulling it off like JC did.

Since 2013, I've never known, or heard of, anyone getting put on a PIP except via reading posts here. It seems like it's easier to do mass culling than to go through the time-consuming process of documenting performance (or manufacturing poor performance with goals outside the job description) of a PIP.

Just be aware, PIP is still the Cisco preferred method for reducing headcount. VPs have told their managers to get as many as they can on PIP, as this is the “cheapest” way, extra money saved goes into VP allowance and bonus. Not every employee could be eligible for this, so rest get picked on next LR.

Cisco strategy is very clear regarding best company to work for, while ELT works with Wall Street to boost their stock on being the AI leader!!

All the sh-t tactics employed by management has put the company in such a sh---y state not promoting the deserving right people for years unethically laying off people whom they don't like you got to be an a-s kisser to be promoted or immune from any layoffs, we have now so many trillion dollar companies atleast 7 to 8 , and this sh-t is in the same state like 25 years back. What a piece of junk.

Usually, PIP is used a threat. Take this reduced package now and leave, or face the PIP. If you fail the PIP, you are fired with no severance.

Anyone wonder why managers never get on PIP? It’s their job security.

PIPs are a way to get rid of employees without going through LRs and avoid severance pay outs and accelerated RSU payout. There is less than a 1% chance you survive a PIP.

There was a crazy manager who needlessly put an employee on PIP and it became such a mess for all involved. That person put up such a fight that it turned bad for all of them involved. The person quit Cisco eventually but the manager had to step down to an IC role and to add icing to the cake the manager's manager was layed off and team dismantled. Karma gets you bi--h.

@hgp+1tpSnci9
One in my region has 4 reporting into them
No 121, crazy call outs in QBRs
Zero and I mean zero basic understanding of networking if you say 7 layers of ethernet likely thinks it is a trifle recipe
The rot starts from the top

Some Managers with many cases against them still survive in Cisco its baffling to see how HR still protects them and sc--w the minions.

There are genuinely evil managers in Cisco. Believe me many!!
I have seen very experienced employee with active CCIE put on PIP and to go through extreme pain and torment is simply mind blowing 🤯. Why can’t Cisco just fire these evil managers who have no technical or customers skills, but they excel in politics 😇🤬🤯

I've only seen one person put on PIP and they were extremely incompetent. Anyone with any skills is just laid-off with severance... unless you have a genuinely evil manager

Why would a manager take PIP route which is messy and require lot of documentation and confrontation with an employee, they can just get rid of an employee through severance as layoffs happen every 6 months now. Just trying to understand , are managers getting rewarded for taking PIP route what is there for them other than seeing an employee suffer.

With the layoffs always around the corner, managers won’t bother with a PIP. Instead, keep the underperforming person on for a few months, and when word comes down to supply a list of names, you have your cannon fodder. Better that way than PIP them, you don’t get a backfill, and you are still asked to cut. Only instead of cutting someone you would have PIP’d anyway, you have to cut someone that actually performs.

It’s a pain in the @ss every time I’ve had to put someone on one. The extensive documentation, the meetings with HR…not worth it. Just write them off, and keep them as a sacrifice during the next LR.

But putting someone on PIP is a process, that managers have to go through to demonstrate that you were indeed a poor performer!!

@dtj+1tpSnci9 this is good info, i think it can get messy for managers and they would rather take severance route to get rid of an employee, Cisco seems to be a complete mess right now, not sure how folks are working here with constant threat of layoffs with another one slated for August, good luck folks

PIP means no severance.

Think about it; if they were to offer severance, many would look forward to PIP. You'd know you were getting a severance, so just spend the time before looking for the next job.

PIP is a we-pon and is a cheap way to get rid of employees “without” paying any severance or any separation money! Theoretically Cisco would like to reduce headcount using PIP, and JERK managers know it well !!! They get trained on this process.

But putting someone on PIP is a process, that managers have to go through to demonstrate that you were indeed a poor performer!! Without this proof and process, HR and Cisco would be liable for a law suit. Make sure you fight it hard, as this is your LAST chance to escape it. Demonstrate and keep everything in writing that you have been performing and doing duties as expected. Unless HR is satisfied, Jerky managers can’t succeed in putting and exiting employee through PIP. Been there, done that. Now time to fire these non-productive employees harassing fat checks bossy managers and directors! That is the only way to fight injustice and cruelty imposed by management.

Cisco is not the company I and others joined twenty years ago! Don’t feel bad you got stuck here.

Damn this is not good

Believe if you get put on PiP there is no LR severance.