Thread regarding AT&T layoffs

Welcome to Walmart!

"The fact is you are not as good as you think you are"

No, the fact is you are much luckier than you think you are.

Come to the accounting/finance side. We don't have enough people to fill positions. Almost all companies are going through a difficult time finding people.

When surplused you should have received an offer for free services to assist with your resume and LinkedIn profile. I asked to be surplused and retired at the same time so 8 did not use the service but did receive several emails from them lettin me k if they were available to help.

What type of positions do you actually qualify for? The answer to this basic question is likely different than the current expectations you have.

Suggestions:
Check out the classified ads in your local newspaper to find jobs. Look for the business name in the yellow pages and record the mailing address. Innovative companies will have a fax machine number. Note that down.

Provide properly formatted resume created with your smith corona typewriter. Provide cover letter, and if expenses allow, use egg-shell color, heavy stock paper, to reveal your exceptional skills "pop" on paper.

Mail resume at the local post office. Stop by the local kinkos to fax your resume for those tech savvy companies.

All done! Wait excitedly near the landline and prepare for interviews. Did you dry-clean your suit for interviews?

Best economy ever, Jack.

The fact is you are not as good as you think you are

Pivoting into a general software engineer or backend engineer role without relevant experience is going to be very tough in this job market. Maybe it would be a good idea to get into a new industry or try teaching, but only if its something you're passionate about! Making any sort of pivot will be very hard, so make it easier on yourself by choosing a path you're energized by.

What are the titles of the roles you're applying for?

Old guy here but IMO Multiple things going on ;

1. For decades, companies getting cheaper labor in Philippines, India etc.
2. Engineers are expected to be multi-faceted being able to write code, support network etc.. I don't know if AT&T went to DevOps(Sec) model but there are few candidates able to do all that.
3. Software developers can be hired out of college
4. As OP said..remote.

And none of this has anything to do with what party is in office

“Hello, professional software engineer.”

Lead MTS, actually.

“Senior” is just an easy catch all.

“And how much of that is actual working experience? I know you're bullsh-tting, because I have actually juggled Go with Python.”

I worked on Python apps at previous job for ~2 years.
Here I worked on a couple Python projects for ~2-3 years.
A go project for ~2 years in parallel with Java projects for the past 2 or so years.

It’s all just code dude, it isn’t hard and you have ai now. It’s ez.

Senior Software Engineer here, hi.

Hello, professional software engineer.

I write Java as my main language here (microservices) but also do architecture, system design, etc.

I do leetcode, and study system design because I know that’s what the job market requires

Ok, so you're a Java developer who does leetcode. Good for you.

I also know Go, JS, C#, Python, Kotlin, many frameworks, etc.

And how much of that is actual working experience? I know you're bullsh-tting, because I have actually juggled Go with Python.

But the economy is doing great. Isn't that what the MSM keeps telling us..

Hey OP, if you aren’t getting very many callbacks it’s got to be your resume or the positions you’re applying to. I read your post and I’m a little confused on what positions you’re applying for? You say front end and web development but can’t code? I guess UI/UX designer is what you’d primarily be applying for but do you have a strong portfolio of work, maybe even a website? All the UI/UX designers I know have a very large portfolio of very strong work. If you want these sorts of roles, I would suggest having a website and displaying all of your work. If you don’t have a lot, I would suggest maybe volunteering your skills to an organization of your choice (e.g. designing a website or app from scratch etc).

But you also say you have had project management experience? Do you apply for Product Owner or PM roles? Do you tailor your resume for every job application you turn in? Do you use the key ATS terms for the roles you apply?

Also, it’s not just backend engineers who are getting callbacks. I’m friends with alot of front end/fullstack engineers who were able to get new jobs after 2-3 months. But again, I don’t think your experience (from the way you describe it) makes you a candidate for a frontend engineer.

Honestly, from your post and comment it doesn’t sound like you know how to contextualize your experience in a clear and concise way related to a specific job you’re looking for. That’s probably being reflected in your resume/cover letters.

I don’t know what the job hunt was like 23 years ago, but it’s a grind now and has been a grind for years at this point. Learning how to succeed in this job market as someone who has no experience in it is a full time job in and of itself.

For anyone else on this post who are job searching — don’t be bogged down by this post. It isn’t an impossible job market, but it is a difficult one. I started searching last month, turned in 100 applications as a software engineer and am in the middle of 4 interviews at the moment. I’ve been networking a lot, volunteering for causes I am passionate about as a way to upskill and therefore have a lot of extra things to talk about during interviews. (I’ve been referred to other companies by organizations I volunteer for too) Also I’ve been leetcoding a lot, can’t get around that.

For most things the ui just needs to be “good enough” and the ui work doesn’t go on forever unless there’s a redesign.
A lot of internal applications or smaller tools can just grab a theme and layout from some other tool or use a very basic bootstrap, materialUi, etc theme and layout things out intelligently and get by fine.

For big customer facing projects there may be a benefit to having ui people on teams, but there are significantly less of those than other apps…
Developers are taught Human Computer Interaction in our university programs and go over ui design - most of us are reasonably good at it even if it isn’t our focus, and we pick things up quickly so I can use ai and a course and be designing within a week or two, it’s nbd.

The goal is to be flexible in this market and learn quickly.

Yeah, that's what I'm learning the hard way. I've never had a need to since we all had our own specific roles within the various teams I was on over the years at T. It also never really occurred to me that people do it all sides now, how can someone that is a coder by nature by successful at the art side if they aren't creative. And vice versa I guess. Although I image it's easier for an someone with the art/creative background to learn code then a coder to learn art if they don't have a natural affinity for it. And you are right AI is definitely changing this industry. This has been a huge wake up call for sure with a lot of hard decisions ahead.

Yeah, software developers are expected to do ui/ux, front-end, back-end, and infrastructure now…so people who only do one thing are generally going to have it a lot harder than a dev who can perform all of these roles.

Ai can also help design and prototype ui/ux now and there’s other tools out there such as figma, etc that make the design process a lot more accessible for non-designer types.

Pure creatives without much of a technical background are definitely going to struggle.

OP here, yes I got a severance which we used to pay off all of our bills and I am getting unemployment but that runs out next month. We’ll be ok on just my wife’s salary but barely.

My background and degree is in graphic design which then over the years morphed into web development, client services, Sharepoint management, UX/UI, project management, and creative director type of roles. All front end. I know coding enough to be able to manipulate it when I need to but I don’t write it and I’m not a coder, there were people that reported to me that did that work.

I know there are plenty of back end jobs out there that others are getting fairly quickly. That’s why I’m trying to decide if I need to pivot to back end which honestly I don’t like it at all, I’m a creative person and it is just not enjoyable. Or do I need to think about a new career or maybe go back to school and maybe teach art/graphic design.

I’m even 50 yet so I have enough working years left to make a change. This whole process is just so discouraging.

Did you get severance and unemployment?

Retail always has additional openings during the holidays. Many of these positions lead to permanent positions in the new year.

Make sure you have “Top Performer at AT&T” listed on your resume.

“You'd be surprised at how many Java positions are out there. Java is boring as fu-k, and those doing leetcode don't wanna touch Java with a 10 foot pole.”

Senior Software Engineer here, hi.
I write Java as my main language here (microservices) but also do architecture, system design, etc.
I also know Go, JS, C#, Python, Kotlin, many frameworks, etc.

I do leetcode, and study system design because I know that’s what the job market requires, I hate it but I do it because it’s necessary if you want higher TC.

Have a good day!

“What the heck is leetcode? No, I'm not OP, I'm just curious.”

LeetCode is an online platform that helps users prepare for coding and programming interviews:
Practice: Users can practice coding and algorithmic problems of varying difficulty levels.
Learn: Users can learn coding and programming skills.
Assess: Users and employers can assess coding and programming skills.
Compete: Users can participate in coding competitions.
Prepare: Users can prepare for technical interviews.

LeetCode is popular among job seekers in the software industry and coding enthusiasts. Many tech companies use LeetCode to assess the coding skills of job candidates during interviews

I just reread this post and saw he said 23 years at T.

Yeah, this person doesn’t leetcode or do any of the things modern Software Engineering interviews are expecting, and they only have experience on front-end apparently after 23+ years of experience.

You'd be surprised at how many Java positions are out there. Java is boring as fu-k, and those doing leetcode don't wanna touch Java with a 10 foot pole.

Hm... one of my coworkers just got surplussed in wave 2 and accepted a new role elsewhere within 4 weeks. They weren't particularly up to date with their skill set and got the offer without any connections.

Not saying I don't believe you, but am merely sharing my anecdotal experience. It's definitely possible.

As others have said, hang in there! If something isn't working, try a different approach. Try reaching out to former colleagues and see if they can set you up with something.

What the heck is leetcode? No, I'm not OP, I'm just curious.

I just reread this post and saw he said 23 years at T.
Yeah, this person doesn’t leetcode or do any of the things modern Software Engineering interviews are expecting, and they only have experience on front-end apparently after 23+ years of experience.

That’s their problem, not the job market.

You're not just competing with Americans due to H1B visas.

I think dotcom was worse - maybe because I was in Telecom when the bubble poped. Hang in there! Pick up new skills and maybe a few certifications. I know of tech people that were out of a job for 2 years but got back.

What are you skills?
Are you in development or just general IT?
Do you only do front-end?
Why not full stack?
Do you leetcode?
Can you confidently do leetcode mediums and sometimes hard?
Have you studied system design?
Have you read DDIA (Designing Data Intensive Applications) by Kleppmann?
Have you used Ai to apply and optimize your résumé?
Yes, it’s difficult, especially if your skills aren’t up to date and you’re competing with a lot of younger more driven folks.

It’s a grind, but just take a few months, grind it out, spruce up the résumé - and find something else.