Updated: Please read - updates at the end.
I am a full-time 2L at WSCOL at Argosy (Western State College of Law at Argosy in Fullerton, California, formerly Western State University College of Law) and I while I was waiting in the "lobby" (small area adjacent to the door near the administrative assistants with a row of five chairs directly in front of their desks) I overheard two experienced law professors discussing the potential future of EDMC. While the conversation was muffled due to distance and the law professor's door being nearly closed, I heard the male law professor say to a female law professor something similar to the following:
This conversation occurred about 4:00 PM Pacific Standard Time in the faculty area of WSUCOL on Thursday, January 21, 2016.
Male Law Professor: "After that faculty meeting I want to just hang it up. I am too old to be dealing with this. I could have retired years ago and was here because I love to teach and inspire, but ever since EDMC bought us all we have done is sacrifice good students with a lot of potential for Bar passage rates. Those students are my favorite to teach, because they are more creative; something the Bar does not evaluate. It is a shame, because most of them would be fine at established private law schools and would have done fine here prior to the EDMC purchase."
Female Law Professor: "[Name Redacted], you know this is going to be a big mess. You can retire but not all of us are there as of yet. We will be forced to teach until the students find other schools and can transfer. [Name Redacted] told me that she is going to go reenter private practice since it is doubtful we will have a 1L class in the Fall. I tend to believe her. Dean [Name Redacted] warned me before he retired in 2010 that he foresaw this exact scenario occur. I spoke to him recently and [Name Redacted
are going to have dinner at his home in the Inland Empire next Friday night. I will be interest to hear what he has to say when he find out just how right he was."
Male Professor: "Dean [Name Redacted] saw the writing on the wall. He was brilliant to leave when he did. EDMC is taboo and we keep telling these students that the faculty controls the school when in reality we are enslaved to [EDMC's] demands. It is a shame... a real shame. I think EDMC will declare bankruptcy in 2016, probably before the end of the fiscal year. They will probably ask [Names Redacted] represent them!"
(laughter)
Female Professor "[Name Redacted] has too much integrity for that. He did enough to fight for our ABA accreditation. It is sad because that is likely going to be withdrawn soon, too.
Male Professor: "[Name Redacted] said that we could expect to a Certified Letter any week now. I agree with her. Whether we are sold for a bargain, EDMC declares bankruptcy, the teach out actually happens, or a combination of some sort, I am done in May. I cannot deal with this. My wife has been telling me to do this for years and I finally am."
At this time the law professor for whom I was waiting (who was not one of the aforementioned law professors) called the administrative assistant at the desk and the administrative assistant informed me that I could go to their office, so I did not hear any more. However, when I was done the doors were closed to the office where the conversation took place.
If you do not believe me, that is fine. I do not answer to anyone but myself. To verify myself all I have to say is the word "Bonnie" and that should suffice. Additional verification is that the above conversation took place on the third floor. Does anyone have any input? Has anyone else heard our ABA accreditation is at risk? When do you think EDMC will go bankrupt? How exactly do teach outs work in law school? I am so upset and frustrated. From the outside, everything seems to be fine, but if you start talking to students, especially 2Ls and 3Ls, it seems doubtful that the 2Ls or 1Ls will actually ever see their graduations at WSUCOL at Argosy.
Update: So I took the advice of a friendly posted and joined several anti-EDMC Facebook groups. However, I am afraid of posting this story because then all of my friends and colleagues in law school will know exactly who I am. Would someone please post my story on my behalf. You have my permission. I hope you understand.
Furthermore, I completed my defense to repayment application as well. Thank you, kind users of this website. Yes, there are kind people who use this website who are willing to help people like me. I pasted some of the interesting comments below that I found helpful and hopefully others as well, especially if you are at ESUCOL, and Argosy Schoo, or any EDMC entity.
Helpful Quoted Comment: I am sorry to say, but it looks like you better start looking to transfer to another law school. That one has always been a low tier school. It sounds like the law professors there, or at least some of them, actually care about their student body. It is a shame the place was purchased by EDMC since it sounds like they booted good people so their statistics looked better.
I have experience with several EDMC schools, although I have no direct connection, and this post seems spot on: once EDMC (or any for-profit entity) purchases the organization, the corruption explodes, integrity sinks, good people leave, the good people that stay are unhappy, turnover skyrockets, and the entire place closes or the quality severely declines within a decade.
You ask good questions. I am not sure how this situation would affect a law school as opposed to a technical school or college. I hope you get an answer.
I cannot verify your story obviously, but I could see it happening. Similar conversations are likely occurring throughout all of EDMC's properties.
I wish you and your fellow students the best. I am glad to be done with school and paid in full. Admittedly, this was much easier to do three decades ago."
Helpful Quoted Comment: This is the same thing that happened with the Art Institutes. EDMC purchased reputable schools with good faculty and tenured professors and then changed the climate completely. It becomes about the bottom line and the profits once these for-profit operators purchase the schools. Good teachers are let go and adjuncts who aren't qualified are brought in. Enrollments and numbers take priority over student outcomes. It is interesting that this is happening at a law school, and your questions prove to be intriguing."
Helpful Quoted Comment: "@Full Time 2L at WSUCOL, start working with the student group "I Am Ai" and Debt Collective for a "Defense to Repayment." .......................................https://www.facebook.com/groups/aistudents/................................................https://debtcollective.org/defense-to-repayment"
Helpful Quoted Comment: Would love to see faculty and/or graduates of WSCOL provide pro bono legal assistance to those who have been ripped off by EDMC.:
Helpful Quoted Comment: "No this is a great post! This type of post should be an example to all on how to communicate content that actually provides something of sustenance Thank you Mr. Law Student and best wishes!
I agree with an earlier poster... Are there any WSCOL alumni who would be willing to help these students???
What a sweet irony if someone were able to help.
Again, GREAT POST! GOOD LUCK! You should repost (with any updates or further information) this with any updates on Monday once the work week restarts... I am sure EDMC will be calling WSCOL and informing the faculty on how to properly close an office door, lol!!!"
In conclusion, please continue the discussion about EDMC. DOes anyone have any further information about WSCOL at Argosy? Has anyone heard similar discussions or conversations at their EDMC-owned schools?
Thank you, thank you, thank you to all of those who have helped. You have not only provided important information to me, but additionally, you have potentially helped others as well. Although this website is generally anonymous, I want you to know that there are strangers out there who have significantly helped me deal with this difficult situation, and I know I am not alone!
Stand Strong! You are not alone! Down with EDMC! Off with it's head! We are winning and we will be victorious soon!