Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

Is it possible that Chevron purposefully overshoots the Age 65 Social Security Offset for 99% of all employees, knowing that many would not turnover their social security statement? They stand a lot to gain when they shortchange a retiree’s pension. A more honest approach would be for Chevron to ask every employee to provide their SS statement and run the numbers both ways without penalty of loss. Give the employee applying for their pension benefits the highest of both calculations. I think over 95% of retiring employees would gain to one degree or another by submitting their SS statement. Those still working at Chevron should pass this information along to as many colleagues as possible.

If your social security age 65 benefit is less than what Chevron is showing as your SS Offset, it’s in your favor to give Chevron your Social Security statement. Like the previous poster said, Chevron does not have your actual wages before they hired you, so they need to come up with a way of estimating your SS wages going back 35 years.

@frwqb, It’s a helping thing you are trying to do. When I retired recently, I was daunted by the same questions; whether to provide my social security statement to Chevron or not, as well as how can I calculate or estimate the resulting benefit if I did provide my statement. First off, rather than focusing on exactly how much different the new benefit would be, it’s more helpful to assuredly know if your benefit would be higher or lower than what Chevron’s pension estimate is. The Social Security Offset your retirement estimate is showing is only an estimate, essentially only a guess on Chevron’s part. Don’t be too concerned. The SSA calculates your actual benefit based on the highest 35 years of SS wages in your lifetime. Chances are you haven’t worked for Chevron for 35 or more years, so Chevron needs to guesstimate your wages for years before you hired on to achieve 35 years of wages. How Chevron estimates this is unknown to me, but it’s only an approximation. What’s is important to look at is which is HIGHER, Chevron’s Age 65 SS Offset figure or your Social Security estimated benefit at age 65? The SS statement only estimates our expected benefit for ages 62, full retirement age, and 70 (not 65). So how can we figure for age 65? One way is to call the SSA at their toll-free number and wait on hold. The other way is to use some of the benefit calculators available on the SSA.gov website. Once you’ve determined the SSA benefit you can expect to get at age 65, compare that figure to the offset amount Chevron is guessing at. If the Offest amount Chevron is using is higher than what SSA gives you, it’s a no-brainer, submit your SSA statement to Chevron. They will substitute their guesstimated wages beyond your working years with the company with your actual SS wages. That will result in lowering the offset number they will use in calculating your pension benefit. This increase in your pension works for both an annuity payout or the lump sum amount. I followed this simple approach and came out ahead. One thing to remember is to compare apples to apples. If you leave Chevron before age 65, there are some assumptions Chevron makes in the calculations. It assumes you would work anymore until 65. When you speak to someone at SSA or use one of their calculators, you must enter 0’s for your remaining years until 65.

I have built a calculator to help Chevron employees analyze their pension options vs. their lump sum option. At one time, I conducted seminars (I am not affiliated with Chevron) to help employees understand their pension. The two most common questions were, "How can I figure which is better, the lump sum or one of the annuity options", and "Is there a way to calculate the social security offset BEFORE turning it in to Chevron HR?" So, I have built models to do both. The LS vs. Annuity calculator is done... but the Social Security Offset calculator is still being tested. I am looking for Chevron employees who are willing to share their experience (and numbers) anonymously for the benefit of others who are struggling with this issue. If we can confirm our math, the Social Security Offset Calculator will be of incredible value to Chevron Retirees who believe they may be losing benefits by NOT turning in their actual SS Statement, but are afraid of reducing their benefit if their hunch is wrong. info@lump-sum-vs-annuity.com

@1oxi, if you provide Chevron your social security earnings statement, they are obligated to replace their methodology estimates with your actual earnings, from your age 22 to the calendar year before your termination. Chevron employees retiring with less than 25 years of service are very likely to gain by submitting their own SS earnings statement prior to taking their pension. Those with fewer years with Chevron will gain as much as 10-20% more. If you've already retired and have taken the pension, you can still provide your SS statement, so long as it was no more than 6 months since receiving the pension. Chevron will be obligated to recalculate your pension benefit and issue you the difference if it's more.

If it to your benefit to share your SS earning statement with Chevron, then you should share it to get your share amount of money. You don't have to share it with them, if you choose not to.

Question. If I supply my actual ss statement to Chevron, do they still use only my age 22 forward data, or do they begin to use years prior to age 22?

Thanks to the other thread, I downloaded my actual ss, and I am sure that it is to my advantage to use the actual. Not sure how many dollars to me yet, though. Thanks to those posting on this topic.

@1zkq, your idea of how it works is not correct. Please read both the actual Chevron Retirement Plan posted on the Benefits Connection website AND the intelligible comments from posters on the thread called "Lump Sum vs Annuity" on this Layoff site. Bottom line is you must follow the pension plan's formula for the "offset" calculation. The assumption is using only your actual social security earnings from age 22 to last year (2015) with the assumption you will have no earnings in 2016 or future years until retiring at 65 years of age. Compare that to the Chevron estimation method in the plan. If SS provides a lower benefit at age 65 than the Chevron method (Age 65 PIA), then submit your SS Statement to Chevron HRSC. Your pension benefit will result higher to one degree or another.

Social Security I will receive is based on my entire working life's contribution and my current and former employers' contribution. Logically, SS offset should be calculated based on the portion that Chevron contributed to my SS. Am I right ?

There's an answer to your question on the thread called "Lump Sum vs Annuity". Nonetheless, understanding the SS Offset and knowing if you should provide your actual SS earnings to Chevron is the only control you have in maximizing the Chevron Pension benefit. Ask HR to provide you will satisfactory answers to your questions. It's mentioned in the Chevron Retirement Plan, yet there's not enough explanation or guidance on this one topic. Chevron is in the obligation of responding thoroughly to employee requests for usable info on all benefit matters. The HR Renumeration group better set aside at least 30 minutes in their Death by PowerPoint presentation to those employees who are left standing. Demand it now before it's too late.

My understanding from the comments on the previous thread on this subject is As long as your Social security calculation age 65 payout ( assumption in the social security payout calculation is no income after chevron termination) is less than the chevron retirement estimator age 65 PIA You should benefit by submitting your social security statement

Hopefully my understanding is correct, that is what Iam going with

I would go with whatever number benefits you, I don't believe there is any rule or requirement not to. That's of course if you have that option(haven't submitted your SS statement yet). In this case it appears that they gave you a better number from their estimate if the offset is lower. However, you may not be doing it correctly. Check you numbers carefully. If you have been maxing out your SS since age 22 then there should be no difference. Make sure you didn't use a liberal SS Cola prediction within they ANY PIA calculator. The only reason you your have a higher annuity with their estimate is if their earnings estimate was significantly lower than your true earnings prior to being with Chevron, for the period that they had to estimate. That is not usually the case. it is more often that they OVER-estimate you earnigns and you benefit by giving them your real(lower) earnings. Check the earlier thread on this for better answers. I am not the expert, that's just what I learned from reading here, and I also use ANY PIA myself.

You kinda do get to choose...just don't submit actual information to chevron if you want to use their estimate.

Just to clarify, the Chevron retirement estimator number I am referring to is the Age 65 PIA number which is used to calculate the Social Security offset. In theory, for the same amount of earnings, it should tie to the age 65 payout calculation from Social security, should it not ?

I understand that I don't get to choose, Iam trying to figure out why the retirement estimator shows a social security offset number larger than my age 65 payout according to Social Security even though the total earning calculations (Chevron and Social Security) are roughly the same.

They estimate. They'll use that value unless you provide your actual social security amount (not the retirement estimator value). If you send the actual amount to them they WILL use that value...you don't get to choose between their estimate and they actual value after providing the actual value.