Thread regarding Chevron Corp. layoffs

Good advice, 4Uxee. Thanks.

When I used that any-pia tool thing from the SS website it took me about 30 seconds and I got the same answer (within a few cents) of what the call to SS told me. The call took a while including hold time. maybe 15-25 minutes of grief? I recommend the call too, though to confirm the results if you need to report it to Chevron.

Don't forget to update to the latest tool periodically with the new tables. Your stored data (earnings, selections) will still be there and usable.

The downloadable application, ANYPIA.exe, does indeed solve for any scenario, but it's not entirely user friendly. It worked for me and matched within $1 what the SSA analyst calculated for me over the phone. If you want to give ANYPIA a try, I suggest you also download and read the instructions.

"Your social security earnings statement" is what you can download and is what the retirement office is requesting. You can also easily get your official estimated SS benefit at different dates with ANYPIA downloadable tool (program) if you need a different date than what the report gives. Not sure how the estimate would not be all that they would need. It contains all of your work data.

ANYPIA is fully customizable to any date of work stoppage, any benefits start date between 62 and 70 and any wage adjustment that you foresee.

Please keep disagreeing, though, with this common and widely known and available information. This is fun!

4Utrv is right. Your social security statement online does not provide an age 65 benefit. It provides only your age 62, your FRA age and age 70. The benefit amounts is calculated on the assumption you will continue to work at the last reported wages until you file for benefits with the SSA. For retirees who took their lump sum or started their annuity pension within the last 6 months, the Chevron Retirement Plan states you can still submit your social security earnings statement. Chevron will recalculate your pension amount and, if the result is a larger amount, they will pay you the difference plus 5% interest.

I'm afraid that's incorrect, @4Trsy. Simply logging in to your social security account online to look at or request your Earnings and Benefits Statement won't work for this exercise. The SS statement you see online assumes a few things, such as you will continue to earn the same earnings as reported last year until you reach your Full Retirement Age. The Chevron Retirement Plan stipulates how your pension is calculated. One part of the pension formula states that the year you leave Chevron, your earnings will be calculated as being zero ($0) and it assumes you will have no further earnings through age 65. This is the part you need to understand well. So, it's important that you get in contact with the Social Security Administration office and ask them to calculate your SS benefit for an age 65 start date. Tell them to use your actual earnings starting from your age 22 up to 2016 (not 2017 or the current year in which you leave Chevron). Further, tell them you will be retiring and not be earning any income this year through age 65. Having the SSA calculate your Age 65 benefit excactly this way will give you the result you should be looking for. This is apples-to-apples way to compare to the Chevron Pension Age 65 SS Offset amount. If the SSA provides you a lower monthly age 65 benefit that Chevron's estimated Offset, then submit your SS Earnings Statement to Chevron. They will be obligated to use your actual earnings instead of estimates for the unknown years you weren't with the company. The shorter the time you were employed with the company, the better your result will likely be. I was with Chevron for 23 years and it benefited me to submit my SS statement.

You can easily get your official estimated SS benefit immediately by logging into the website, confirming your ID, and requesting it. It's just like the one that they used to mail you periodically except up to date and has all of the taxable income in your life unless you didn't report it. There is no need to "call" anyone.

I called the SS office and asked them to calculate my age 65 benefit based on the rules stated in the Chevron Retirement Plan. The SS representative calculated my benefit as being 17.5% lower than the Social Security Offset figure that Chevron was estimating. Because my SS benefit was lower than Chevron's Offset amount, I sent Chevron my SS earnings statement. This obligated the company to use my actual SS earnings going back to when I was 22 years old. My lump sum and annuity amounts increased about 10.5% after they received and processed my new pension calculations. I'm grateful to the person who originally posted on the subject of the SS Offset. I had read about it, but it flew over my head as something that wasn't that important. Boy, was I wrong.

Details might be difficult to pin down exactly, but the general idea is simple enough. If you got hired directly out of school and were generally promoted ahead of your peer group (e.g., successful in the management track rather than tech track), and you worked a long time for another company, then do not share your SS numbers. if you spent some extra time in school, were laid for a time, or were otherwise engaged in activities less lucrative then the salary trajectory of someone always in your current job track then you are probably better off sharing your real numbers with Chevron. If you think your close it probably does not matter. In my case, 20 years in academia before joining Chevron, I will be sharing the whole sorry salary history! ;-).

A simple way to know if you will gain by providing your Social Security earnings statement to Chevron is the following: Call your local SSA office. Kindly ask them to calculate your estimated SS benefit for Age 65 (not Full Retirement Age or any other age). Tell them to assume that this current year and all future year earnings until age 65 will be zero. Additionally, ask them not to include any earnings you may have had before the year you were 22 years old. They will be able to give you an answer in less than a minute. Write down the monthly benefit amount they provided you. Compare the SSA estimate of your Age 65 future benefit to the Social Security Offset amount that Chevron uses in their pension calculation. If Chevron's Offset figure is HIGHER than the Age 65 benefit you got from the SSA, then you will come out ahead by giving your SS earnings statement to Chevron before requesting your pension because it will obligate the company to use your actual earnings instead of their estimates. The amount of lump sum or annuity you get will depend on several factors, especially if you joined Chevron well after your 22nd birthday. You have nothing to lose in calling your local SSA office and talking to them before you retire and commence your pension paperwork. Don't leave any money on the table. Best of luck to all.

I suppose nothing stops you from providing Chevron your social security statement while you are currently an active employee. But why do that? Just wait until you are prepared to retire. Your ability to provide Chevron your SS statement is written in the Retirement Plan rules. If your feel like doing it not to protect you against a change in rules, go ahead and submit the statement now. I would choose to wait and make that choice later.

This is a helpful thread. For some of you with higher earnings most of your years will be over the SS contribution limit. For example it was $127k last year. So, your SS earnings will be the SS limit which is less than your actual. When you do the calc described you will be over the SS limit most years, so just use the SS limit as your earnings those years. As mentioned, critical years will be any you were not with CVX (over age 22) when you earned less than the SS limit which should also be less than CVX estimates.

Is there any issue with advising CVX your earlier earnings while still employed? They will correct the calculation on your account?

Congrats eelj on your lump sum bonus. Better 6 grand in your pocket than left on the table. Can you tell us how many years you put in at Chevron, your age at separation and what percentage increase the extra $6000 was over the amount calculated before you submitted your SS statement. Thanks.

I submitted my actual earnings and my lump sum increased by nearly $6,000. Not bad for an hour of my time.

-3anr, Yes indeed, every Dollar helps. It's the reason I took my time to write a detailed post. Sorry if it went a little long, but I wanted to cover things sufficiently to not be misunderstood. Please keep in mind that you calculated that Chevron's estimated sum of wages is 10% higher than the sum total of your actual earnings. You will definitely profit from submitting your SS earnings statement to Chevron. But understand that your pension benefit will not increase by 10%. It will increase by perhaps 5%. The exercise of running the Chevron wage estimation vs actual SS earnings was to determine the SS Offset amount would be lessened, not to figure your final pension payout increase. Nonetheless, if you conserve the original printout of your Retirement Estimator scenario prior to submitting your SS statement and run it again after Chevron used your actual earnings, you'll be able to appreciate the real amount by which your pension has increased. Good luck all and happy retirement to all by Chevron colleagues. If you have a particular question I may help with, post it here and I'll do my best to get you an answer.

1qzu, thanks for you detailed post. Based on that, my calculations show the Chevron estimates of my total wages to be about 10 % higher than my Social Security earnings. So, I think it is worth for me to submit my Social Security statement. Every dollar helps !

-1dbc, that's a very good question. I didn't ask that of my Chevron RCA because I never hit the maximum cutoff limit for Social Security taxes. I was paid just below that limit for the last 5 years of my career. I would assume that Chevron would trim their wage estimation to the social security annual tax limit for all years going back to your age 22. It makes a lot of sense that they would to properly estimate your SS Offset. I must say, however, it is not stipulated in the Chevron Retirement Plan, so you should speak to a Retirement Case Administrator at the Chevron HRSC by calling 1-888-TALK2HR. I'm sure the readers of this subject would appreciate knowing the answer. If you get a clear answer, please come back and post it here.

What about the maximum limit of earnings that can be taxed for Social Security , if you are above that then does the chevron calculation use Social Security max in their numbers or your actual earnings that were calculated the way you explained. The reason I ask is the social security statement used the max limit ie for 2015 it was $ 118,500 , so if your actual numbers were 150,000 , Social Security will still use only $ 118,500 as you earnings number., at least that is what I see in my Social Security Statement. Thanks

-1msi, you are making a lot of sense. I asked that very question of my Retirement Case Administrator when I retired from Chevron after 24 years in 2015. He replied saying it is Chevron's methodology to calculate things the way it was explained below. It's all stated as such in the Retirement Plan.

Thanks for the detailed post, it really helps

For the time period in which you worked for Chevron, Chevron should use the actual earning numbers , why use the National average Wage Index to calculate it ?

-1kpt, Sorry for this long post, but first off, don't try to over-analyze the Chevron methodology too much, as it would become confusing quickly. The objective here is to have Chevron calculate a lower Social Security Offset amount. In reducing the Offset, Chevron will be taking away less from their pension formula, in which you will receive a larger payout. Follow the logic and concentrate less on the figuring out the Chevron formula to the tee. It's logical that if you earn higher wages over your lifetime, you will be receiving a larger Social Security benefit than if you earned less over your lifetime. So apply that logic to solving for your decision whether to provide Chevron your SS statement with your actual earnings. Chevron's estimation of your SS earnings going back to your age 22 has only one purpose, and that's to estimate what it thinks the Social Security Administration is going to pay you when you reach age 65 (Age 65 PÍA). Chevron will reduce your pension benefit by HALF of what it estimates your Social Security benefit is going to be at age 65. That is what they call the "Social Security Offset" figure they are estimating. How can you logically determine if Chevron's estimated SS Offset is too high? It's pretty easy. I'll try to explain the process as simply as possible, as follows.

Open a blank Excel spreadsheet and in the first column enter the year you separated from Chevron. Let's say it was this year, 2016. In the next row below, enter the previous year, 2015. Follow suit for the next row with 2014, and continue this until the last row in which you were 22 years old.

In the second column, next to the year 2016 (the year you separated from Chevron), enter $0 as your earnings. In following the calculation of the Chevron pension formula, a zero value is entered for the year of separation. In the next row (for 2015), a value is entered. It is 105% of your annualized Highest Average Earnings (HAE). You will find your monthly HAE disclosed when you run a Retirement Estimator scenario from the Benefit Connection webpage. Multiply your HAE by 12 to get an annualized figure, then bump it up 5% by multiplying it by 1.05. Enter this bumped up figure in the Excel spreadsheet as your 2015 earnings. In the 2014 earnings column and subsequent columns, you will be entering amounts that involve percentage changes in the National Average Wage Index. It's fairly simple, so follow along.

Go to the SSA.gov website to find this information. Here's the URL: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html. You may find the published wage index ends with 2014. This information is updated by the end of September or mid October each year. If you need the 2015 wage index for this calculation exercise, you can wait until later in October or enter the same figure shown for 2014 (or a very modest increase). Inflation has remained very low this past year and Social Security has been tossing around the prospect of no COLA increase this year, so it's likely the wage index for 2015 will remain much the same as shown in 2014. Open up a second worksheet in your Excel spreadsheet. Copy or enter the wage index data shown on the SSA webpage for the years you need going back to your age 22. The objective is to figure the wage percentage changes between the years. For example, the national average wage index for 2014 is 46,481.52. The index is 3.55 percent higher than the index for 2013. Figure the percentage changes for each year going back to the year you were 22 years old. Once you're done doing this, go back to the first worksheet and pick up where you left off.

You already entered your 2015 "bumped up" annualized wage, so proceed to calculating your 2014 wage. Subtract from your 2015 annualized wage, the percentage change in the national average wage index between 2015 and 2014. This becomes your 2014 annualized wage. Work this calculation back the same way for each subsequent year, adjusting the previous year's calculated annualized wage by the percentage change in the nation average wage index for that year.

Once you've completed the exercise and you have all the years back to your age 22 populated with annualized wages, sum the entire column of wages. Now sum your actual earnings from your Social Security earnings statement going back to your age 22. Don't worry if you had no earnings gong back that far or if you had years in between where you earned nothing, enter "$0" for those years. Sum up your Actual Earnings and compare it to that of the Chevron methodology grand total.

If the Chevron estimation of your total wages is LARGER than your Actual Social Security earnings, you will come out ahead by providing Chevron will your Social Security statement. Chevron will be obligated to replace their higher wage estimates with your lower actual earnings. This will result in Chevron lowering the "Offset" figure, which will increase your pension benefit (both lump sum and annuity).

One last word: Don't try to figure your Chevron pension benefit to the Dollar of exactness. It is very complicated and the changing 3-month average in the corporate bond segment rates will always throw you off from arriving at an exact Dollar amount. Know only that when you lower your Social Security Offset figure, you gain a higher pension payout. That's the basic logic of the whole exercise, to make the correct decision whether to give or not give Chevron your SS earnings statement. If you intend on giving Chevron your SS statement, run and print a Retirement Estimator scenario with your desired start date, along with the assumptions of 0 salary increase and 0 bonus percentage. Keep the printout for your records. Once you submit your SS statement to Chevron and they update their estimates with your actual earnings (give them about 2 weeks to do this), you can go back to the Retirement Estimator and run the same scenario. You will notice the change in your pension benefit amounts. If you like, you can submit your SS statement along with your pension commencement papers. It's a good idea to write a short cover letter informing Chevron that you are providing your actual earnings statement and keep a copy of everything you mail to them. If you are a retiree and have already started your pension (lump sum or annuity), you still have the option to provide your SS statement to Chevron, as long as you started the pension less than 6 months ago. Chevron will recalculate your benefit and pay you the additional amount, plus interest, from the date you stated the pension.

I would be remiss in leaving out that my post is for informational purposes only. I am not imparting legal or financial advise. Your choice to provide your Social Security statement to Chevron is your own to make.

@1vvw - This is where I get confused. Chevron is trying to compute the percent of your Social Security payment that is attributable to Chevron's payments rather than someone else. If they assume you were paying max SS tax during the years you weren't paying any, then it seems that they would underestimate how much of your total SS tax that they paid. That is, they think they only paid 90% of your SS tax (cause someone else was paying it those first few years) when in fact they paid 100%. This would seem to reduce the amount of your SS payment that they consider that they paid, which would reduce the offset. So it seems to me to be better not to tell them you didn't earn money those early years. What am I missing?

-1nig, You started working for the first time anywhere at 27, so there is actually 5 years going back to your age 22 where you earned nothing. In Chevron's estimation of wages, they will be inserting wage values into those 5 years and using it to figure the Social Security Offset. In your case, providing Chevron your SS earnings statement will help you.

In my case, I did not start working till I was 27 , so hopefully it will benefit me

If you worked for chevron or one of the companies they bought out from the time your were 22 or so, they already have your actual earnings so the difference is zero.

A copy of your SS earnings statement can certainly be sent in at the same time with your signed pension commencement papers. As a matter of fact, just as stated in the Chevron retirement plan SPD, you can submit your SS earnings statement up to 6 months AFTER you've already started your pension (annuity or lump sum). If the recalculation of your benefit is higher due to submitting your SS statement, the difference will be paid to you with interest from the date you first started your pension.

Can I submit my social security statement along with my pension papers or do I have to send it earlier

I submitted my Social Security statement a month or so before returning my pension commencement papers. I saw an 6.2% increase in my lump sum and annuity values. I was with Chevron for 23 years before retiring. I'm sure employees with less years of service will see a larger increase than I did because of the way the Chevron retirement plan estimates your wages prior to your start date, going back to your age 22. The estimate of your unknown wages back to age 22 is calculated based on your Highest Average Earnings. This figure (HAE) is shown in the results when you run a retirement estimator scenario on the Benefits Connection website. The process of estimating your wages going back to age 22 is used to figure the "Social Security Offset". If you are able to lower that SS Offset amount, your pension amount will increase.