I want out!
29 replies (most recent on top)
@MTBgVcd-4pkl. If the package is still the same as Sept. of last year, (assuming you sign the bogus agreement for the severance package), you will get 12 weeks pay plus 1 extra week for each year 10 and above plus any accrued PTO. So for you, you would get 12 + 7 weeks plus whatever PTO you have accrued (plus the lump sum payment of 4 months of Cobra grossed up so you don't have to pay tax). Don't be too optimistic about the bonus payout. I was hit in Sept. and got approx. 1/3 of what I would have gotten normally. I heard of many people getting nothing and one guy who posted on this blog got $250.
Experience is what you have accomplished over your career.
I've gone through a number of dictionaries and none have a definition which is congruent with this. Most allow for mere observation to be sufficient.
Most people at Cisco will never observe anything beyond the kinds of failures that cause programs scheduled for a few months to overrun by years and still have severe quality problems when those programs reach customers. I wouldn't take anyone I worked with at Cisco into a competitive fixed price environment as they don't have the skills to compete there, and since they've never observed that kind of environment they don't have a reference as to how ineffective they are.
No. You should always do what is in your own best interest, be it short or long term, as the time horizon suits you. If leaving the company is in your best interest, then probably a severance is also helpful, and so you should work towards that.
Don't burn bridges. You should do the best you can and network your team to influence your future tenure with any company. If the Grimm Reaper shows up, then so-be-it, but trying to get yourself laid off is a disservice to yourself and your team. Those advocating to just skate by or do the minimum to encourage Management's hand are most likely already gone from Cisco and not advising in your best interests. You should always give your best days work - otherwise you're just lying to yourself and cheating your peers.
Experience is what you have accomplished over your career. The problem with Cisco is that we've mastered the art of convincing our internal peers that we've done much more than we really have. If I had a nickel for every director that had claimed they had successfully built, from the ground up a $100m business, I'd be rich, and Cisco's stock would be climbing at 50% y/y.
The skill level/experience and cost are directly related to age. As you get older, you gain experience.
Experience doesn't come from making the same mistakes for decades without change. From trades to professions which require a doctorate too many people never learn the basics in school and continue to not learn throughout their careers. Cisco has distilled this into its purest form and it's reflected in the quality metrics.
As for pay, many companies now pay over $100K for engineers just out of school and under $100K for hires with "experience" so the correlation between cost and age is breaking down, but still not in a way which compensates an individual based on their actual contribution.
There are no early retirement packages....that stopped in 2011. Cisco has no need to do that...they can cut anytime they want now.
They learned in '11 that they offered a big enough severance package that 99% of the people would sign the agreement to not sue the company so there was no need to offer early retirement the next time. Myself, and many other's I've heard from that are over 50 decided the package was too good to give up for the chance of winning a case for age discrimination. It's my opinion, and it won't change, that Cisco is getting rid of older workers because we're too expensive than less qualified, younger people. Cisco isn't discriminating against me purely because I'm old, but the effect of replacing older workers with younger contractors, and in rare cases employees, IS age discrimination. The only differences between me and the replacement is our age, skill level/experience and cost. The skill level/experience and cost are directly related to age. As you get older, you gain experience. You can't have a 25 yr old with 20 yrs industry experience.
It all boils down to the question of whether or not Cisco needs someone with 20 yrs experience or with 5 yrs experience. Can we both solve problems? Yes. Can they do it as fast? Maybe. Probably not. Will they make the same mistakes I made 15 yrs ago as I was gaining my experience? Probably. Possibly not, and possibly bigger mistakes.
The real question is going to be how are we as a society going to survive if companies go for the bottom line and take this trend to it's likely conclusion? If companies only hire junior-to-mid-level experienced people and won't hire older, senior-level people, then they're going to be out of work, living on unemployment, then welfare after they go bankrupt. Then the younger generation is going to have to pay more taxes to cover the people out of work. They're going to either need more wages to buy the things they want or cut discretionary spending, which means companies won't be selling as much, which means lower profits and more cost cutting and getting rid of more expensive employees and on and on it goes. Pretty soon, McDonalds jobs won't be for high-school students, it will be for the over 50 professional leaving manual labor jobs for the younger, pre-college grads.
beat (dictionary definition): defeat in a game, competition, election, or commercial venture.
Coincidence? Irony? Foreshadowing?
My God - Beat. What an appalling waste of company time? Cringe inducing.
I'm already paid out. I hide in various overlay functions, harass sales pukes for pipeline and move on! It's great fun with little stress and plenty of work like balance. Plus, I get to watch fulfilling episodes of cisco beat.
As a site, ottawa seems to be doing well with more and more key components. Is it thd quality talent at much less than sjc cost or govt is giving additional tax breaks there?
...you can manufacture your way onto the naughty list.
Apparently there have been cases where people were told their job moved to the middle of nowhere and they could either move themselves or be out the door with nothing, so don't be too naughty. Don't be too nice either, as you may be forced to stay on for a ridiculous period of time to do the TOI for your group and you won't get your package if you don't agree. Mediocrity has the best rewards from cradle to grave.
Like has been mentioned by @3glo and others, you can manufacture your way onto the naughty list. It's not rocket science but it might be already too late for the next big one but your time will come soon if you put in the ground work.
4pkl - it will only be 5 months of salary if you add in your vacation and extra time served above 10 years. There are no early retirement packages....that stopped in 2011. Cisco has no need to do that...they can cut anytime they want now.
Wondering what will happen if the end of year bonus does not in total or does not happen at all. Holy sh!t there is gonna be some really unhappy people walking around.
Optimistic to think we will get a bonus.
16yr veteran here... can't wait for the pay out. I heard it'll be 5months or so of salary... plus if it's done in the summer we all get our September bonuses... Outside of a bump in January/February this stock hasn't moved in years.
I influenced my LR and the associated package at Disco , anyone can do too... talk to your manager(ONLY if you trust him/her)!! Good Luck :)
If you really want out, my advice is just get out.
If you in a position that you will retire when you leave, then it is extremely unlikely that the relatively meager pay out you would get as severance will make any difference.
If you will be looking for a new job afterwards, then start looking now. Your negotiating position is a lot better when you are employed. If you have unvested RSU's etc you will be in a better position for the new company to "make you whole" as part of the sign on.
The benefit to your mental health of getting out of an environment that grows increasingly toxic by the day should not be underestimated.
I really wish I had the foresight to get out of there on my own, before I was force out. I'm much happier now.
I'm ready for my early retirement package.
Me too. Where do i sign up :-)
Hunger games begins properly again in August. I hope we are lucky this time OP :)
Learn, keep current on technology, take care of yourself, and work hard on your core skills to remain industry relevant. Everyone's number will eventually come up. Hang in there.
Green managers are not ready for prime time pissing off the staff.
I got hit last year. I am 40+ and was Grade 11. Now my segment is suffering. WHY? b/c the greenies know Jack Sh*t.
Me three.
I can relate to this post.
Many, many, many have tried. They don't take volunteers.
Yes, there are two ways:
1) Tranfer into an overlay team, partner org, cloud, video, or Services sales teams and wait until August for the next round of survivor. Between now and then, go hide and start lining up the next gig.
2) If you can't take it any more and want to escape before our next cisco beat next week, you can type "unsubscribe_all_interfaceCisco1_job=leave_#set_EmployeePayout=true&" in your CEC toolbar (or DOS box etc) and HR will send you a confirmation web letter to your email. Please note that the command line is case sensitive with no shortcut cmd instructions.
Good luck!