Thread regarding Cisco Systems Inc. layoffs

PIPs are a way to get rid of people you don't like. Their purpose is to ensure Cisco can get rid of a certain amount of people but at lower cost than before.

Keeps the market happy.

I spent close to 10 years at Cisco on various roles and was a celebrated accomplisher with great feedback from management and stakeholders. I was put on a PIP for political reasons. Just 4 months before my reporting was changed unilaterally without any discussion and I did not get long with the manager. The PIP document was full of blatant lies which I contested every argument line by line with supporting evidence.

I raised the employee relations case, and upon seeing the PIP document with my counter arguments, HR set aside that document but insisted that I still need to work on the PIP. Its was obvious that the document was indefensible. They refused to change my reporting and said "There is no other reporting available for you".

I asked the below questions but I did not get any answers -

1) Why was my reporting changed despite raising concerns about the manager?

2) What was the business case for needing another manager when nothing has changed with my job responsibilities?

3) Given the scale of lies on the document why can't the error be corrected by changing my reporting?

4) Why hasn't the manager be apprehended for lying on an official document?

5) What has been done to check the credibility and competence of the manager given the situation that has unfolded?

It was a stitch up by the eco-system as the manager had high level connections. The manager couldn't tolerate the fact that I challenged the document and started playing the hard ball with me. Further lies were put on the weekly meeting notes to cook up evidence.

I negotiated the exit and ejected myself out from the dark environment. I immediately found another job which is much better (in everything) than the Cisco one.

My advice is not to bow down to management and HR in such a situation. Its not worth it! PIP are old school and do not fit well within a civilised work culture.

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I totally agree with the last comment on this thread...It sounds like you wanted to exercise the PIP process more than empowering your employees.

In terms of navigating through a PIP, you are pretty much done once you are placed on it. I had a friend who was placed on a PIP simply because his manager did not like him and wanted him out without severance. He wrote a steller dissent to the PIP and HR took him off the PIP because there were enough fallacies within the document itself to even holds its weight. The next step was to pay him for 6 more months to just sit around since the PIP process is extremely sensitive (from a legal standpoint).

When they did finally decide to lay him off, he was offered the most lucrative package I have ever heard simply because they knew he was a force not be reckoned with.

The question to be asked here is why you would waste your time and energy earning a few extra bucks when you can refocus your energy to doing bigger and better things. In my friends case, he was stubborn enough to just prove a point.

Dear manager,

Having had to go this route with a number of employees this was the process.

Isn't it you who should get fired for making a "number" of wrong hiring decisions?

Replying to this and a few others:

What planet are you on? You don't get a choice. You are put on it as a last resort. You have no choice.

Having had to go this route with a number of employees this was the process. It could have changed in the past year since I left.

I'll address from the perspective of an honest manager who has an employee with legitimate performance issues i.e. not meeting expectations.

1. You identify an employee that is not meeting expectations.

2. You let your HR rep know.

3. You start to document things to CYA. Send e-mails and explicitly request replies. Tell them point blank that they didn't meet a deadline and that's not acceptable etc.

4. Once you have enough of a paper trail you draft a PIP document.

5. You inform HR.

6. You schedule a formal meeting with the employee.

7. In that formal meeting you inform the employee that their performance has not met expectations and that you have drafted a formal PIP plan.

8. You inform the employee that they have two options. They can Accept the PIP and if they do not meet expectations and the expectations in the PIP they will be terminated with no severance. The second option is to resign and take a small package (if I recall it was on the order of 60 days). They have 30 days to make a decision, but during that time you will be scheduling weekly meetings (or more frequent) against the goals in the plan.

9. If they "Accept the PIP" meaning that they say that they want to stay employed and will meet the goals of the PIP, you groan inwardly at them being a complete idiot and say "Ok". You then document every single thing they do that does not meet expectations copying HR on each e-mail until HR says "Ok. You have enough of a paper trail, terminate them".

10. If they don't "Accept the PIP" i.e., they take the money and run. You wish them luck and work out a transition plan with them.

I had to take two employees through this process. One quit at the start of the meeting I called to put him on the PIP as he had already accepted another job. I gave him the option of me giving him the doc so he would get 2 months salary and could walk out the door and he refused it. (That level of stupidity was the reason he was on a PIP in the first place.) The second took it to 1 day before his deadline to accept the PIP or resign and decided to resign. I told him I had no work for him. He could collect his paycheck for the next two weeks and didn't need to come into the office.

Just do the minimum amount of work and pass along indirect hints about layoff impact.

E.g. are layoffs coming? Are we going to impacted? When will we know? Repeat every week or so.

@OteIodK-8wzp - that was an interesting post.

Anyone else wants to share how they ended up in a PIP?

This is what happens when you are fired after a failed PIP. Big corprorations generally give like 2 months pay. This is nothing for them. And it clams down the folk a little to not sue the company,

Is there anything else short of directly telling my manager (who is evil) that I want to get laid off?

Really? If your manager IS evil, why would he put you on the LR list and give you a good package when he can manage you out under a PIP for a cheaper package?

Are you in the US? In the US, they don't give you a deadline to resign. You're just told that your performance is unacceptable and that if you don't meet your new performance goals, you are gone. You have weekly one-on-one's to discuss your goals for the next week and (hopefully) what it will take to meet them successfully.

This is a weird post. I've known several people to have been on PIPs. I was also on a PIP at one time.

Sometimes you're put on a PIP for political reasons and sometimes you're put on a PIP for performance reasons. In either case, management will call it poor performance.

I was NOT given a chance to resign. As far as I know, none of the others I know who were on PIPs were given the opportunity to resign.

Someone said, that if you're "fired' as part of a PIP, you get no package. That's not true. Is it the same package that people get as part of a workforce reduction or limited restructure? I don't know for certain, but I certainly doubt it. When I was put on my PIP, I asked HR what would happen if I failed to meet the performance goals my manager laid out and I was told that I'd get a severance package. They would not give me details, but from what I recall, I was told it was way better than the typical two-weeks pay in lieu of notice. Something like 2 month's pay. It may have been the typical one month's pay and another month's pay if you sign an agreement not to sue Cisco, or it may have really been 2 month's pay. Whether or not they added any bonus severance for signing the agreement not to sue I don't know.

All I know, is that my manager re-assigned my primary duties to take over the duties of a guy who quit rather than face termination under his PIP and I was not qualified for those duties. They were not part of my job description that I interviewed for 3 yrs prior and I had no training in those responsibilities. I knew then that I would fail to meet one or more of the goals and be terminated. I was told that I had to "gain competency" in these areas in 2 weeks. Who becomes competent in a totally different discipline that normally requires a certification in just 2 weeks? I told HR that I didn't think that the deadline was reasonable, especially given that the duties were not part of the job description I was hired under. I managed to last 2 months until the workforce reduction.

Back then, Cisco announced the WFR in June & said impacted US workers would be notified in Aug. I was fairly certain I was going when the ridiculous goals became more reasonable, but were difficult enough to encourage me to quit. I knew for certain I was being let go when my manager moved my weekly 1-on-1 from Thur afternoon to first thing Tue morning and Tue was the first day of the announcements. I cleared out my desk Mon night after everyone had left, wiped my computer of all personal data, backed up all my performance reviews & emails from my manager that could be used in a law suit if needed and was ready to be walked out the door Tue morning.

: @OteIodK-4zza

"Whatever you do do not, ever accept the PIP"

What planet are you on? You don't get a choice. You are put on it as a last resort. You have no choice.

Don't ask for LR to your manager. I know a case where friend of mine asked and they gave him $2000 Cap award, So that they can't lay him off. My Friend was very disappointed. Till today he didn't get any hike and on same position since last 3 years.

If there is a layoff round before Aug 21st then the odds are close to 100%.

I assume the Aug 21st date is the 30 day date to either accept the PIP or take the pay-out to resign?

If so wait it out to see, if there is a lay-off round and you are on the list take it. If there is no round, or there is and for some reason you are not on it, then take the pay-off for resigning on a PIP.

Whatever you do do not, ever accept the PIP and try to "improve your performance". If you are on a plan it means they've already made the decision. You're out of there in their mind and they are just doing the paperwork now.

If you are put on a PIP, then show the middle finger and find another job...Dont worry about package and waste time...There are a lot of incompetent looser managers in Cisco..

I wouldn't recommend a work-to-rule approach to get on the golden list. If you are on PIP then they can just dump you for poor performance for free anyway. No package and no bonus (that's if there is one at all!). Better to do your work but be argumentative with your manager and make their life difficult. It's a fine line. Reality is the list has likely already been submitted at this stage anyway so it's likely already too late bro influence it this round.

Getting fired doesn't mean you get nothing. Check with HR to find out the package.

Being on PIP means you are in danger of being fired, which means NO PACKAGE. Nice try, but I doubt your plan will work.

Do not mention to your manager that you want to get laid off. My girl friend asked and was denied. Then they made a living hell for her, she ended up quitting without getting the package...

So basically you don't pull your weight and have been put on a pip. You actually sound proud of being an under achiever. Cisco will probably LR you but the reality is you should just be kicked out for being a waste of space and a drain on your colleagues.

Take more pto while you're on your new job. Take leave of absence (or medical) till you get laid off.

If you are on a PIP, do as minimal work as possible. Avoid getting fired and no package. Milk Cisco as much possible until your new gig starts. Congrats with your new job.

Dear human, I have the exact same problems (including evil manager :) ). You're not alone. Hang in there! All the best with your new venture!!

You're safe. Why lay you off and give you a package when they can wait a few weeks and in you for non-performance.

Well done.