Thread regarding Oracle Corp. layoffs

TK's Org Desperately Needs New Leadership

The lack of direction is killing us. Every month it seem like the goals completely change and we have no idea where the ship is supposed to be headed. There is no comprehensive vision for our company or products. Just a bunch of random, often conflicting, decrees from up top.

People are so scared of our leader, they hide all the real problems from him. To make matters worse, nothing is delegated. Every important decision needs to be run past the very top. When that one person on top is indecisive, only cares about our top 5 customers, and isn't really that interested in most of the products / technology he inherited, this style of "management" leaves us crippled as a development organization.

LE needs to learn when to stop backing a losing horse. TK's org has NEVER turned out a successful product of our own. All we do is slowly kill the companies we buy and milk their customers to the last drop. Just look at Fusion Applications to see the garbage this org pumps out when we don't just buy an already successful product / business. We need a real leader on top.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt

92 replies (most recent on top)

So is this week's layoff just cleaning up the mess TK left for us?

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-7Vfxf

CP FTW!

https://www.quora.com/Have-you-worked-for-Thomas-Kurian-at-Oracle-He-is-the-new-CEO-of-Google-Cloud-What-is-he-like/answer/Cameron-Purdy

Have you worked for Thomas Kurian at Oracle? He is the new CEO of Google Cloud. What is he like?

Cameron Purdy

Cameron Purdy, former Svp at Oracle (2007-2015)

Answered 4d ago · Upvoted by Geethika Chilamanthula, Senior application engineer at Oracle (2013-present) and Nitin Kesarwani, worked at Oracle · Author has 2.1k answers and 5.5m answer views

Yes, Thomas (aka “TK”) was my boss at Oracle. He was the President of all product development, and his boss was Larry, the Chairman of the Board.

I saw that TK got a new job running Google Cloud at Google, which is an outstanding opportunity. That should be interesting; among other things, he was responsible for Oracle Cloud at Oracle. In that role, I think the results speak for themselves.

I can’t tell you what he is like; I can only tell you what he was like at Oracle when I worked for him:

Detail-oriented: No detail — and I mean absolutely no detail — was too small for him to bring up, focus a large organization on for an extended period of time, and ultimately make a decision on himself, which he was flexible enough to change without warning every 2–3 weeks thereafter. I think the results speak for themselves.

All-knowing: There is no topic, in technology or business, on which he was not the foremost expert, and thus it is important for him to be involved in every decision at every stage from product inception, through product architecture, through product development, through product launch, and for the remainder of the product life-cycle. I think the results speak for themselves.

Dynamic: Some people are content to go “along the cool sequested vale of life [keeping] the noiseless tenor of their way,” sticking with a plan and doing the boring work of building and delivering something of great value to customers. Thomas was far more dynamic than that, working in 2–3 week cycles, within which cycles any product that was conceived, built, delivered, and ramped to $1+ billion in revenue within a single cycle was allowed to continue to exist. Any project or product that could not be conceived, built, delivered, and sold to the tune of 10 digits of revenue — all within a few weeks — was cancelled or dramatically altered every 2–3 weeks thereafter. I think the results speak for themselves.

Audible: Some people speak quietly, and use words that do not convey exactly what they are feeling. TK is very good at speaking at an amply audible level and using very efficient words (often no more than 4 letters long). This has been a very good recruiting tool for Google — what foresight! I think the results speak for themselves.

I’m a results-oriented person. I think the results speak for themselves.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-60oun

Worked for him for about four years. My boss was his direct report. Had many meetings with him. Cannot find a single person who genuinely liked him, he's a bully and enjoys verbally abusing pretty much anyone. Oracle made a great move by letting him go. Google on the other hand must be desperate. He's uninspiring and often myopic, has difficult time dealing with any challenges to his preformed opinions. I'd give him a year or two at G, primarily based on his Pichai relationship - I'd be very surprised if he lasts much longer and I doubt that Pichai is powerful enough to keep him much longer. Let's see what Larry and the board decide in a year, in the meantime, he's fine in Pichai's shadow.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-5Zscv

Those poor, poor people at Google Cloud. They have no idea what they are in for!

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-5Wjih

So who will be our new leader?

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-4Mzlz

Yes! Yes! Yes!!!!!!!! Thank God it’s finally over!!!!

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-4Mfpx

An utterly incompetent racist

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-2rkic

You can have a gala career under him if you are a south indian I thought. Quite a few examples.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-2rtyl

TK needs to be fired! 3 stooges to stupid to do even something so simple!

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-2rhag

TK's choice of people is very strange, he has picked up a bunch of failures (mostly indians) and put them in key roles. These people have never built any business and only destroyed value.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-2qvgg

Sounds like a bogus story. Oracle pays bonuses for being listed on a patent (whether you actually did anything or not). What motivation would your own manager have to (a) not get listed on the patent and (b) later accuse you of excluding him? If it was truly a worthwhile idea, it would make him look good to be a co-inventor.

So either it didn’t happen or you have a really stupid manager. Those exist, but not nearly as many as you make it sound.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-1crzt

I've got another story. Maybe this will help someone else along the way.

While I was at Oracle, I got an idea for how to solve a problem in the code. The manager I worked for suggested that I submit a patent for it. I had written up the solution to the problem, had sent it to him in an email and had discussed it with him, although he did not do anything other than listen to what I came up with. There were no changes to the idea based on our discussions.

I filed the patent and we had a discussion about it when the idea was accepted. I was going to list my manager on the patent application. But, he told me, very specifically that he did NOT want to be on the patent with me. He said that he had not made any contribution to it so he shouldn't be on there. He was emphatic about it. DON'T put me on the patent application.

So I didn't.

I was doing what he told me to do. But, there were then things he did after that, that seemed like he was trying to make it look like I had intentionally excluded him from the patent. He tried to make me out to be some kind of conceited person who had to have the patent all to myself.

I believe that this man intentionally did that. The patent was submitted but was never pursued. After many years nothing has happened to it. I wonder if this was some kind of sabotage.

I am the person who wrote about the design documents (below) that I kept writing to this same manager. He tells me on the phone not to work on that. Then asks me in email after a while if I am done with that yet.

This is really sick. Be careful if you are a decent honest person working in TK's org. A lot of the manager's are like this. They try to make other people out to be dishonest or something in order to get other people to join in against them.

These people are very sick.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-1cfsd

It is a lost cause for Oracle. But consider protecting yourself while you are there. There are a large number of dishonest managers and employees in TK's org. Consider recording all conversations.

You can get a pocket digital recorder with a microphone good enough to record conversations and meetings with the recorder in your pocket. Protect yourself.

Good luck to the honest few in TKs org.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Uatt

Sorry, it’s a lost cause. If LE and the hapless Oracle BoD haven’t figured out yet how F:ed up TK’s org is by now and done something about it, they never will. Time to move on!

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Silb

If you are in TKs org and you want to see things changed, you should keep posting in this thread to keep it up at the top of the "Active" list.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Pkxu

From: @QfAKigt-riv

It's hard for me to see how Oracle transitions to a leader in cloud... but hey I could be wrong!

You are NOT wrong. Cloud will not happen. No one has the guts to make the changes necessary to get cloud on track. It's over.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Ptsh

Not sure that would be the smartest think for LE to do, but then again Dev is sonF:ed up and has failed so totally on producing cloud products for so long, there is nothing smart about keeping TK and his useless henchmen around, however you look at it, LE is clearly missing something upstairs. Maybe the old man just plain doesn’t have it in him anymore

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Lwld

Could it be that TK is doing exactly what he's supposed to do. Make sure that Oracle never develops a working cloud product?

Maybe LE figures he can make more money by purchasing and raiding other companies than he can by developing actual products? He owned a lot of NetSuite, right? He made a ton of money by selling NetSuite to himself.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Lloy

The tricky shocking things pertaining to TK are: (I) the enormous amount of money he has made at oracle for essentially f:ing up the dev org and products, and (ii) that LE and the BoD are so utterly dysfunctional that they have not fired him. It’s absurd that he’s still there while oracle is getting killed in the market place by SFDC, AWS, MSFT, Google, and a bunch of smaller competitors.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Iwdb

So let me get this right. TK's two-pronged strategy of:

  • Cutting people and offshoring until product teams are so dysfunctional that they can no longer turn out a working product

  • Screaming profanity-filled rants at the poor few who remain when their stuff (inevitably) doesn't work.

is not good leadership? I'm shocked...

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Iayx

Wasn't there a #TRUTH comment in here about how the management behave like junior high kids. Where did that go? I think some things were deleted in here.

But, definitely, the junior high thugs and creeps are running the management in TKs org.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Hfqv

And the complaints come and they pile and and yet the oracle BoD is completely oblivious to how F:ed up the company is .... what a bunch of scum bags!

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Gisl

The worst of TK's org are the BEA people.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Febc

Oracle is making such great progress we have the best products in the world, maybe even the whole universe, the best ever, because they are mine and I said so, so it must be true. Everything else including AWS, SFDC, Google, MSFT, don’t exist they’re just fake news, because I said so.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Ejqn

This thread seems to be far from accurate. I work in one of product development organizations under TK. It is making great strides to establish its service line in cloud.

LOL!

HR?

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-Eelf

Wow, 5,000 views and 66 comments and still going - that should tell the oracle BoD something, assuming they actually cared about being a real Board, which as we know they don’t, which is why TK is still on the payroll and oracle is a total mess that has lost the cloud wars. Any questions ?

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-jtsg

@impt - “making great strides at establishing itself in the cloud”. Dude, really? The cloud is not a new thing anymore, “making great strides” today - 2017 - is like saying my horse and buggy work just great. Get a grip, oracle has lost the cloud war to SFDC, MSFT, AWS, Google .... all thanks to TK and LE

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-igjk

This thread seems to be far from accurate. I work in one of product development organizations under TK. It is making great strides to establish its service line in cloud.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-ipmt

Why did TK ad his goons survive this last layoff? They should be the first ones to be let go

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-isgv

Any cuts under TK this round (dec 1st)?

Yes, but unlikely on Dec 1 or we probably would have heard about Fedex or UPS notifications. I believe it will be later, but before the holidays. Lists were compiled a few weeks ago.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-hsmq

Any cuts under TK this round (dec 1st)?

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-hodf

I have finally left Oracle, but I was in TK's part of the company and a lot of what is in this thread really rings true for me.

I was a member in a sustaining engineering team for one of the middleware products (FMW). We had a great product and the work was challenging and rewarding. But about 5 years ago, we started getting "bug" reports from the Fusion Applications (FA) team, both from the team itself and Oracle's public cloud, which is based on FA. These bug reports had nothing to do with our product, they were just cries for help from a team that was extremely low skilled and in complete disarray. They built this huge garbage dump, but no one had the slightest clue on how to troubleshoot or maintain it. Unfortunately for us, we quickly became known as one of the few teams under TK that had basic engineering skills, so even if the issues had nothing to do with our stuff, we were called in to solve all of their problems for them. Because of the huge scale of the problems with FA and our cloud, this soon became a full time job for all of us. We could no longer work on our own product, and it is now almost abandoned. In the meantime, almost my entire team has quit. We were engineers, but our jobs turned into babysitting a bunch of clueless FA developers and users. None of us signed up for this, so we all left.

That brings us back to the systemic issues everyone is talking about in this thread. The reason our team (and eventually our product) was destroyed was that TK's org is 90% politics and only 10% development. FA and the SaaS people had very few if any engineering skills, but their managers were downright machiavellian in their ability to doge responsibility and get other teams to do their work for them. The lack of responsibility and leadership means that most of the people in that org were way better at playing politics than making software. Sadly, TK does not know how to tell the difference between teams that actually do good work and the parasites that simply find ways to leach off of the better teams. Politics is rewarded over contribution over there. Now, our product has no future and almost all of my old team is gone (by choice) . I hear we are being replaced by unskilled and inexperienced "engineers" who will only learn how to play "hot potato" and dump their problems on other teams. Soon, there will be no one skilled left to actually do any real work. That is always what happens in a toxic environment like that.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-ezzz

Astonishing that TK is still at oracle given how he has F:ed up dev ops, that said any half decent head of development would long ago have kicked LE out and replaced him with a real CTO, and therein lies the rub. LE is unable to let go and this hags o. To a useless head of Dev. Talk about a lose-lose situation for the company and the shareholders. TK of course makes out like a bandit and LE gets to play CTO.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-cssh

Our man oozes negative energy, he is the biggest source of negativity in the company.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-ceuv

The weak leadership has prevented what should have been world-class operations team from becoming anything more than a glorified help-desk, filled with barely computer-literate script readers.

Didn’t we just laid off over 17k people last year from various engineering orgs ? E.g entire ZFS storage array support and Dev teams were wiped away., that too when PDIT /Cloud has tons of these storage arrays. Perhaps the plan is that next-gen cloud will only have Pillar., and so let’s suffer through this pain for now, and build everything from scratch.

The outages , over marketing of non-existent cloud from execs who can’t even hide their egos and greed, and the illusion of “cloud” transformation is all a handy work of greedy execs. SC joined Trump advisory board and never had a say anything against he said, when others around him were quitting. MH berides his own VPs during key notes . And both of them keep the illusion of cloud persistent to fool LE enough to keep themselves hired.

The board of directors , like every other stakeholder, cares more about short-term quarterly profits, with the long term future of the company being a distant second thought. Ans SC and MH keeps them happy by firing 17.5k people and save on the costs, improving bottom line.

Oracle better have a secret plan to roll out a real cloud soon, with - for God’s sake, a consistent , simple and non-changing name of its features and products. And, customers don’t like the rapid EOL of products they use, so please don’t walk away from customers after selling them a software - customer is there to make their own lives easier, not because they are desperate (like they used to be till early 2010 when there were no good DB alternatives). Cu has options, and they don’t like the lawyers, c**nt, playboys selling them software which has more paperwork and fees agreements then actual line of codes.

The infighting within various directors has always been a feature and will always exist in Oracle, mostly because there are no goals against which a VP is measured, and this goes down the list. No written goals, just show up to work, get 30 recommendations, choose 12, fire and forget and come back to see semi-baked stuff, repackage it and sell 1 of it to a customer and claim huge moral victories in company, get stocks and life is gooood.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-bxay

Over 4000 views! I hope one of the three in power notices this thread and understands how bad we need change. We can't go on like this. There are only so many new ways we can come up with to milk our existing legacy customers. Software companies need to be at least marginally good at... well software. I've never worked in a dev org so disfunctional as here. And the problem starts at the top!

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-9oer

Bezos and AWS are so completely out of LE’s league, it’s like watching a pro toy with a little pup. You’re F:ed LE, JB has you beat each and every way - he’s much, much richer, smarter, younger and better looking

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-7bwu

Oracle is at the front of today's cloud market in the same way a small, yapping dog protests the approach of an oncoming steamroller.

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-7jaj

Best & most accurate post about ORACLE yet:

Fish rot from the head done and this one has been fermenting for a very long time, very rotten by now

1 day ago by Anonymous | Post ID: @QfAKigt-5ryv

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-6dii

Oracle president Thomas Kurian says Oracle Cloud is at the front of today’s #cloud market. But how does that help customers adopt tomorrow’s technologies? http://ora.cl/3ai7D

TK

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Post ID: @QfAKigt-6dlt

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