Thread regarding Oracle Corp. layoffs

Layoffs - Binge in March Purge in June - Big Changes coming fast!

The Oracle "class of " program is rolling out in a big way. MH is super proud of replacing seasoned field sales reps he calls "Mercenaries" with fresh underpaid college grads. Its a win-win / lose-lose. MH and the college grads are happy. An English major with a 3.0 can get a job in sales paying 35K and MH just saved hundreds of thousands of dollars in Salary, its a win for the college grad and MH. However for the seasoned sales rep who busted his bottom and the customer who trusted the sales rep, its a loss all the way around.

MH cooked up this the "class of" Oracle digital plan in 2012 and sold it to LE. In 2013 they took action and bought up real estate all over the globe. In 2016 they put aside 1.1 billion in employee severance packages, and the slaughter began. Tribal knowledge, technical knowledge, customer based knowledge of pain points and problems is being lost on a global scale. Nothing can stop it.

Gotta love this website:

https://markhurd.com/latest-news/class-program-reinventing-sales/

On March 1st we will see the gutting of global support and development ranks. In June we see the end of field sales and sales engineers and enterprise cloud architects- ECAs. Its weighted about 30% - 70% with the lions share to be let go in June. Around 120 Million in severance packages have been approved for March 1st. Again most of the March 1st is support and dev, but the transition will begin and be fairly steady through June.

Sales reps will be put on "plan" given unrealistic targets for Q4, then cut with no package June 1st. You wont hear any complaints from the sales reps. Field sales reps are a different breed. If you ask a sales rep if he has been put on a plan and he or she answers anything but "no," you can be pretty sure they are on a plan. Sales people are the last to complain or let anyone know they are looking for a job. In my opinion they just vanish into the wind like ninjas.

Its the tech staff that will be hit hardest. They are the least likely to look for a job or believe rumors, even if 400 million dollars in severance packages remain to be paid out after a year long layoff cycle that hit the news.

Sign up here to get notified of your lay off package about a week in advance, you should see it show up this Thursday or Friday:

https://www.fedex.com/apps/fdmenrollment/

Expect a 30 minute mandatory meeting on Thursday March 1st 2018 to get instructions on receiving your package. As you exit, remember the tech market is good and you should find a job quickly leaving all this behind you.

MH will have a new party at his house in Atherton CA for the latest round of Class of graduates in June as the rest of field sales gets shown the door. Yipee, Hooray for MH and the ultimate realization of his dream of reducing wages and cutting costs.

All short run strategies pay off handsomely in the short run. It wont be until June of 2019 that the street will hear of the unmitigated disaster that befell Oracle. MH is not an original thinker. This is a common play. Sales people and technical people are the highest paid. They are also the biggest areas for cost cutting. But it doesn't work out well when you fire them.

Lets take a look at this play in action, as a recent history example:

https://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Circuit-City-firing-its-best-salesmen-2635042.php

Electronics giant Circuit City says it will improve its bottom line by firing thousands of employees and switching from commissions for salespeople to hourly wages.

The thing is, though, that to reduce payroll costs by about $130 million, Circuit City has given the boot to nearly all its top performers -- those who'd been pulling down the fattest commissions as a result of their hustle and hard work.

The remaining sales force is largely composed of workers previously paid by commission whose paychecks were relatively modest. They are, in other words, the company's least productive workers.

"It doesn't make sense," said one fired salesman, asking that his name be withheld because he hasn't yet received his severance check. "How could the people who got terminated be more expensive for the company? We got paid well because we brought in more money. That's how commissions work."

The 39-year-old former salesman had been with Circuit City for more than five years and was the top performer in his store for most of this time, averaging about $28 an hour in commissions and other incentives.

He was so valuable to the company that he attended Circuit City's annual Sales Excellence Dinner for its top 200 salespeople on four separate occasions, including last year's event in Orlando, Fla.

"I could sell anything -- big-screen TVs, cell phones, digital cameras," the former employee told me. >"While other salespeople would be standing around, I'd be approaching customers, listening to what they had to say. That's how you do it.

"Not just selling products," he added. "I'd also be selling service -- the extended warranties -- and accessories. We called this hitting a home run. I hit more home runs than anyone."

You'd think this would be precisely the sort of go-getter companies like Circuit City want on their sales floor, not to mention the sort of aim-to- please service consumers desire.

Instead, Circuit City is apparently content to let its second-stringers run the store, with a commensurate impact on how customers are treated.

The company said it fired 3,900 commissioned salespeople last week and converted the rest to hourly pay. It plans to hire 2,100 other hourly workers, meaning the average Circuit City branch will be down about three positions from recent staffing levels.

W. Alan McCollough, the company's chief executive officer, said in a statement that the changes were partly in response to a 5 percent drop in December sales from a year before.

"Decisions related to workforce reductions are always difficult to make," he said. "However, for organizations to thrive, we must understand the external environment and adapt our internal structures to the given conditions. "

Four years later:

https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/circuit-city-files-for-bankruptcy/

Circuit City Stores, the struggling electronics retailer, filed for bankruptcy protection on Monday, becoming one of the biggest, best-known corporate names to collapse amid the faltering economy.

But it wasn't a quick death:

https://richmondbizsense.com/2017/11/21/circuit-city-bankruptcy-9-years-counting/

Like a zombie refusing to go down for the count, one of the largest and longest-running corporate bankruptcies in recent Richmond memory lurches on.

Friday, Nov. 10 marked the beginning of the 10th year of the Chapter 11 liquidation case of Circuit City Stores Inc., the umbrella company of the once mighty Henrico-based electronics retail empire.

A full nine calendar years have passed since the company tumbled into bankruptcy protection with the hope of reorganizing and staying afloat.

But a reorganization was not to be, leaving attorneys to commence a liquidation to unwind operations built around more than 700 stores and tens of thousands of employees, and that left 17,000 creditors claiming they were owed around $1.2 billion.

Oracle has followed the same strategy with its sales team, fire good ones, replace with cheaper ones. It will undoubtedly face the same type of abysmal results, and take about 15 years to painfully die unless LE wakes up and fires MH.

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Post ID: @OP+RP2z34d

23 replies (most recent on top)

@RP2z34d-2sri, are you saying you got a FedEx notice that you're getting a delivery from Oracle America on 3/1/18? If so, it does seem strange that you're finding out this far in advance. In my spouse's case (9/1/17 layoff), they found out 1 day in advance IIRC. Good luck.

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Post ID: @2zvf+RP2z34d

Its past midnight PST. So its technically Thursday. I checked fedex and I got a package from Oracle America... I'll tell you my dept / role after I see other posts they have a fedex for next week. Why do they have these things registered 7 days in advance of delivery?

Maybe its a mistake, its not a severance package and I have an invitation to MH's house for a party. Fingers crossed its a bad joke from a colleague or something and no one else got one.

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Post ID: @2sri+RP2z34d

Go Oracle Go, Go Oracle Go, Go Oracle Go, around the hole and down the bowl, Go Oracle Go !!!

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Post ID: @2nde+RP2z34d

Well, they most certainly are not hiring them, leaving this segment of potential employees to oracle

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Post ID: @2xmd+RP2z34d

I spent some time last year training some of the "class of" members last year and in all honestly most were not the cream of the crop but a lot closer to the "bottom of the barrel". Some were enthusiastic but in all honesty most were as dumb as a rock and even after explaining the same concepts multiple times the light bulbs didn't turn on. Our competitors like SAP, Saleforce, Amazon and Microsoft must be salivating to compete with these clowns in the field.

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Post ID: @1bws+RP2z34d

C’mon guys. Things are great here! I’m sure Larry will be sharing some of the tax law changes any day now!

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Post ID: @1xwi+RP2z34d

“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”

― Mahatma Gandhi

MH the destroyer, has been at Oracle for almost 8 years. In that time he has created one of the worst working environments imaginable, he has turned Oracle away from its core product and focused on pivoting to a cloud company without substance. The world does not work this way for long. Oracle has been propped up by the hard working good people that are getting laid off.

Its time to stop working for Oracle and let it fall. So long as good people keep covering for bad it makes it hard for everyone to see the huge pile of garbage MH has created. Worse, MH is actually proud of it. Replacing workers with cheap unskilled labor is bad for the customer. Once those workers get the skills they need they leave and get better pay.

MH is setting an awful example for the rest of the world to follow. Its time the world sees how rotten his strategy really is.

Its sick to see what he thinks of himself:

https://markhurd.com/

http://www.markhurdhp.com/

This 2010 article has him pegged:

https://www.datamation.com/columns/article.php/3902836/Why-Mark-Hurd-is-a-Bad-Match-for-Oracle.htm

At both NCR (where Hurd was before HP) and HP, he cut expenses to extremes while working to increase his own income. This gets the financials in line and few acquiring companies look at morale as a unique problem and anticipate it in any case. Once the sale is done, the Hurd-like executive moves on to the next project and the lack of employee loyalty becomes someone else’s problem to solve. It is one of the most lucrative types of jobs in the industry but it takes a relatively heartless person to do it because of the adverse impact on employees.

NCR had been sold previously, and the result for the old AT&T was so bad that the acquisition was reversed.

Its time to leave Oracle and let it fall.

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Post ID: @1jxn+RP2z34d

Most of the Class Of program does 1 year as a BDC, goes up to an OD Rep, and are gone from Oracle less than 18 months after that.

Good luck building customer relationships when your rep turns over every 12-18 months.

I believe MH gets “lost” as to how our products actually get sold. He believes customers call us (HA!), we do a webex, send over a quote, and the customer signs. That is honestly what he said in an internal meeting one time.

It couldn’t be further from the truth. Usually, Field reps are badgering customers about calling Oracle when they have an active ERP/CRM/HCM/etc. project. Sometimes they call Oracle. Sometimes they don’t. Then it’s months of convincing the customer through terrible demos and awful resources (since all the good SC’s have either left or have given up so all we get are “kids”) that the software will work. Then we’re the most expensive ARR and implementation cost, BUT you can expand on Oracle if you have dreams of one unified solution. Back and forth through our horrible CSA legal negotiation on T’s and C’s which Oracle is unwilling to change. Then if they STILL INSIST on buying Oracle, it takes us weeks to provide an ordering document since our internal review process (DAS) still takes forever and is managed by Operations people, not salespeople. Then when the customer does sign, we’ll ask you to change your PO format a few times before we’ll accept it.

I mean, a 23 old kid DEFINITELY knows how to run an enterprise sales cycle like that. (sarcasm)

...I’ve been in the Field at Oracle and other companies for 10+ years. Our OD reps are absolutely incapable of running an enterprise cycle. You want some Taleo or PBCS? MAYBE if your OD Rep is even halfway decent, could run that. Most of them are incapable of even running that.

Also, god forbid you actually sell something, and the 60+ OD reps start calling that account incessantly after the sale trying to “tack on” other Oracle products to that project. I’ve had MULTIPLE customers request a single point of contact due to this issue.

If MH thinks he’s doing Oracle a favor by cutting us and our “high salaries,” that’s cool. We’ll take our skill set to Workday, SAP, Infor, Epicor, MSFT, and we’ll run circles around your “Class Of” sales force.

Best of luck in the Field.

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Post ID: @1izb+RP2z34d

The turnover of these kids is higher than 50% in a 6 month period, of course they don’t sell much of anything, how could they ?

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Post ID: @1jao+RP2z34d

What I have not seen mentioned in any thread --- have these kids had any success at selling ANYTHING at all?

A: NO. Not yet they havent.

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Post ID: @1vip+RP2z34d

"Cost savings come in when looking at the new hire salaries and total compensation."

OK, maybe there will be a cost savings. But from everything I'm reading on here there is no way these kids are going to be able to sell at the scale of the seasoned field sales people. Cost savings + decreased revenue = bottom line stays the same. So what's the point of the whole exercise?

What I have not seen mentioned in any thread --- have these kids had any success at selling ANYTHING at all?

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Post ID: @1fzr+RP2z34d

Old news

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Post ID: @1zwo+RP2z34d

He can perform the hire, fire, give MESELF another bonus, hire, fire, give MESELF a bonus crap more cheaply.

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Post ID: @gya+RP2z34d

They’re making offers right and left for support analyst jobs in Austin & San Antonio right now. Got a call from a recent grad asking about the oracle culture. I asked about the interview process...the individual said it was one interview and then a call on SATURDAY (odd!!!) with an offer. No explanation of which group or product, just sales analyst doing research in support of sales. No explanation of the kind of sales or target companies (enterprise, up market SMB).

Guessing the rapid hiring of college grads is the "Binge" part of "Binge and Purge." I guess a rapid influx will offset those who are about to be laid off. Total number of employees remains relatively the same. Cost savings come in when looking at the new hire salaries and total compensation.

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Post ID: @lqu+RP2z34d

Wow - what a great post OP

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Post ID: @gno+RP2z34d

With margins under pressure, SC squeezes the employees, especially with variable comp. New employees might get a bonus the first quarter to keep them happy for awhile, but they shouldn’t expect it after that.

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Post ID: @pph+RP2z34d

They’re making offers right and left for support analyst jobs in Austin & San Antonio right now. Got a call from a recent grad asking about the oracle culture. I asked about the interview process...the individual said it was one interview and then a call on SATURDAY (odd!!!) with an offer. No explanation of which group or oroduct, just sales analyst doing research in support of sales. No explanation of the kind of sales or target companies (enterprise, up market SMB).

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Post ID: @gcy+RP2z34d

OP is accurate on starting salary... offers are made on major. English majors and liberal arts get lowest offers.

http://time.com/money/4777074/college-grad-pay-2017-average-salary/

The average nationally is just under 50k for 2017. Oracle always pays a just a little less. MH likes to pinch that penny.

http://www.businessinsider.com/oracle-class-of-program-college-recruiting-mark-hurd-2016-9

Glassdoor says that Oracle BDCs make $68,000 on average, including cash bonuses and commission-sharing

The whole kaboodle is 68k on average with all bonuses and perks rolled in. Sure one or two make it big and everyone talks about them. But making it big as an OD call center rep and making it big as a field rep are two totally different things... off by an order of magnitude. 100k is making it big as and OD rep, and field sales have been known to bring in a whopping million if they get their commissions (maybe after suing for them).. Can you imagine MH sweating over 1 Million he has to pay out?

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/26/oracle_sues_employee_undo_arbitration_loss/

Oracle, which requires salespeople to agree to binding arbitration to avoid costly disputes in court, is unhappy that an arbitrator ruled against it. So it is suing one of its own employees, applications account manager Felicia Wilson, in a New York court to undo the arbitrator's $257,335.79 award.

That's the amount Oracle withheld from Wilson's $616,302.31 commission payment for the company's fiscal 2014. It would have been $873,638.10 but for Oracle's insistence that Wilson's Individualized Compensation Plan limits commission sales credits from any single customer in excess of 250 per cent of the salesperson's quota in a given year.

So yeah... 1 million vs 100k. The difference is huge. Its plain and simple. Some recent college grad closing the same deal is over 700k cheaper in MH's logic. What MH doesn't realize is that the college grad with no experience could never grow a deal that big.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/07/oracle_dragging_heels_in_debt_servitude_case/

Johnson's legal team is seeking to have Oracle sales people who may have experienced a similar pay reduction recognized as a class. Palmer suggests there may be more than 1,000 such individuals in California alone.

Johnson's dispute is over roughly $20,000 in pay; her complaint filed in February seeks $150m in damages.

The case has some similarity to a claim filed by Felicia Wilson, an Oracle sales rep based in New York. Wilson entered into arbitration with Oracle to recover more than $250,000 in pay denied by the company through revised compensation agreement. When the arbitrator sided with her, Oracle asked a court to undo the award, but the judge in the case recently let the award stand.

Oracle has to pay top sales rep stiffed out of $250,000, US court rules

In 2015, Sanford Heisler Sharp filed a complaint over Oracle's commission wage practices on behalf of Maryam Abrishamcar, who worked as sales rep for the company from November 2014 through May 2015. That complaint, still being litigated, alleges Oracle's sales commission contracts are designed to allow the company to illegally deduct from earned commission wages.

According to Johnson's demand petition, Oracle wants the dispute to be covered by a second arbitration agreement that waives the right to a class action. Having to deal with aggrieved employees as a single group would put Oracle at greater risk of a costly adverse legal judgement.

The petition argues that it's up to the arbitrator to decide whether class-based procedures are available.

So the easy way out is to fire all these seasoned field sales reps, get rid of their pesky law suits and say no to "Mercenaries." Field sales is gone this summer. And by GONE I mean TOTALLY GONE.

IMHO the OP has it right.

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Post ID: @csc+RP2z34d

The quarterly bonus is rarely paid. Its based on appointments booked.

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Post ID: @tjq+RP2z34d

Class of base is $50k and a bonus of $25K paid quarterly. They also have a signing bonus paid twice throughout the year.

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Post ID: @utc+RP2z34d

English majors with 3.0s? They’re not even human!

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Post ID: @vdo+RP2z34d

“Again most of the March 1st is support and dev“

All product lines? Please clarify.

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Post ID: @can+RP2z34d

"In June we see the end of field sales and sales engineers..."

Which pillars, tech or applications (or both)? Those of us who are in field sales and sales engineering for ERP, HCM, and CX cloud applications really want to know what to expect on June 1.

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Post ID: @jwu+RP2z34d

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