Thread regarding Honeywell International Inc. layoffs

Hey 5fjy, 1iue here. Maybe you better read the post again - it was in no way defending the company - it was defending the engineers DESPITE the company. What a jewel you are - making fun of someone for a simple typo when you didn't even understand the post lol.

Yeah now I am seeing why HON feels it necessary to RIF some folks. Feel sorry for your co-workers.

One of the points the Chinese associate was trying to make was, even by Chinese standards, Honeywell was a $htty company to work for and considered "bottom of the barrel".

I really liked that dude. And some of you can identify with, he was one of the few who could actually drive a rental car in the USA and not scare the crap out of you. ALL of the others, made me want to wear a Depends when they drove (or I would volunteer to drive to lunch).

When he would talk about Honeywell, he had a funny cynical laugh and smile, just like most of the rest of us.

A Chinese associate/salary employee from Beijing who was actually pretty good & likeable told me that the work at Honeywell there was "$htty" and was not proud of working there.

I'm sure India and all those countries have fantastic engineers but probably very few of them picked Honeywell and even fewer stick around long. Top talent doesn't stay long at sh-- companies and that is true regardless what country you're born in. My 2 cents.

Wait a minute, didn't Dave say Indier had the best engineers? Surely, Mr. wonderful can't be wrong.

Work hard? Why? You will get RIFd the same as the laziest slug at HON so no incentive there, hard work only benefits wall street and the greedy, inept management running this place so again, no incentive. People in sh--hole countiresare just happy to be employed so they're willing to be exploited to avoid being unemployed and they'll work for peanuts so it's a win/win for Honeyhell and them. HON management has made it clear that employees are last on the list in terms what's important, so, most employees in the US have said ok fine, I'll do the bare minimum till I get laid off, since that is going to be the end result either way.

The more idiot-proof you make it, a better idiot will always come around!

Better off having properly-paid thinkers, a concept alien to Honeywell upper management.

1iue that was defending the company, what does "makr" mean? Another inept Honeywell worker!

But the good news is that I left Honeywell (finally)! Too many people chatting in the hallways and I wondered!

AVOID working for Jay Heath or Tim Mahoney! Stingiest managers I ever saw in 5 past companies! Sorry to say that but truth!

I am happier now much than ever before when I was under mediocre Honeywell!

let the blame game commence..

That wills solve it! More procedures!

So, this all relates to quality. I thought the idea was striving for right the first time ? What we get instead is more and more procedures trying to make design idiot proof. Sorry, it don’t work that way. Oh well, I am sure the big brains at the top have great golden parachutes.

I'm ok with that attitude and understand it even though I don't share it.

Until the Indian Engineers are responsible for the entire product from start to finish and then support it in production the frustration will continue. I tried to use my clout to get this to happen but finally gave up due to massive resistance.

2hiz - "Personally I think the world is better off when we reach out and bring "the other" along with us and help wherever possible." I don't. This is not a goodwill program, the foreign, cheaper workers are replacements for US workers. Are you ok with that? In many cases the US worker has to provide training to the new, foreign worker too. The single reason why it is done is so the Top Executives can show better earnings in the short term. Long term I think bad idea. Long term Honeywell corporate executives do not care. They and WS think US workers are paid too much, get too much benefits and want them off the payroll. Decisions as to who gets laid off in US has everything to do with a boss keeping friends and similar type people. Absolutely nothing to do with work ethic or knowledge. Remaining cash is for stock buybacks and dividends. Hon is only company doing this, lots are. These are the times.

https://www.facebook.com/Mindset2Succeed/videos/903594459793773/

There are quality folks in Indi'er that I have worked with that could hold their vs US employees. They were VERY few and far between though. Yes partly it is the expectations and standards they are held to but the much bigger part is something else (could be culture, impossible to know).

Part of my issue with the biz was the fact that they would bend over backwards to retain lazy or inept employees. And on top of that management with zero leadership skills that aren't willing to reward good employees and give goose eggs to the bad ones (everyone gets same merit increase). Jack Welch at GE had a good idea with the culling of the bottom 10% each year. Does very little to nothing to retain and reward folks that drive results.

I agree with the last guy about helping others. But, if you are never held responsible for your work, you never get any better. That is the problem. When I would talk to my management about problems with India I was told it was my job to make them successful. Once again , no responsibility for their own work. Pretty dam frustrating. I know it is not 1950 and that it is a global economy, but this isn’t the way to do it by just ignoring problems. No engineer just wants to be a babysitter and just get blamed for everything. That is one of the reasons Engineers are leaving in droves and the word is out on the street on Honeywell babysitting services. Good Luck. I left.

From the view of corporate, having domestic resources helping cheap oversea labor is a winning combination. As long as USA engineers keep "picking up the pieces" for cheap labor they'll have to continue to do so. I certainly understand how frustrating it is to see newbies put in charge of important designs and then have to fix the mess later....only band-aids work then.

Personally I think the world is better off when we reach out and bring "the other" along with us and help wherever possible.

I babysat India engineers for 15 years . SW and HW. Sorry, only a couple could think on their own. I tried to keep an open mind, but the critical thinking was not there. I assume a lot of it is cultural. I worked with one India HW engineer who had worked for 5 years in Detroit for GM, he actually lived there. He would always say, not until I worked for a few years in the US did I realize Engineers in the US are expected to figure stuff out on their own. He was very critical of the level work we got from the Indian Engineers. But hey, they are cheap. The US just gets to fix it.

Yeah, there are some consummate politicians and brown-nosers who start the day off ingratiating themselves with the boss. Most engineers are conscientious and hard working. I used to be one. I worked plenty of free overtime back in the day. Might have even gotten recognition back when. Of course, my hair turned grey and I was targeted for abuse and became an elbonian. Forget any kind of recognition after you've been tarred as an under-performer. I'm retired now. My advice, especially if you are older is to not wear out your welcome at this company. You certainly can't trust them.

From what I've seen as a manager and had engineers in India and Europe, it's the American Engineers that tow the line and make sure things get done on schedule and correctly. Its always cheaper in the long run to use the American Engineer. There are always a few bad apples but a good manager will weed those out. US workers are usually in the top 5 in productivity in the world, India doesn't show up on the radar for instance. I've been in aerospace for 30 years and have seen but one or two in that time that might fit the stereotype of lazy American and they didn't last long.

Yes. And build a wall. Original post is fake news IMHO

Hardworking for what? The next RIF or benefit reduction? Or to make some VPs rich?

People are hardworking at getting the f out of here. The laziest slobs are at the top and everyone is following by example.

Anecdote is not evidence, and anecdote saying that only 20% of people in the company are hardworking, speaks more to your perception of the world, than the reality of it.

I agree that the culture has changed in Honeywell especially because of the way employees have been (MIS)treated. I don't blame any one of them for not putting forth an effort, American or not.

Weird because in 2 decades of employment as an AERO engineer, I have seen the opposite. I see people going to great lengths to makr schedules and taking pride in their work. Of course that was when we were treated like humans by ALT. These days I see people doing the job they are paid to do and working the hours they are paid for but not always going the extra mile. That they don't get paid for anyway. What location are you at??

I agree that laziness and a false sense of entitlement is rampant in America. This is one stereo-type that is based on true behaviors shown by the majority of American workers (not just Honeywell). There are other stereo-types from all cultures (e.g. India workers are great - IF you give them step by step instructions and do not expect any critical thinking and making alternate decisions when necessary). How do we break these stereo-types? Sadly, the answer is more globalization and cross-culture education. It will take many, many years, because culture is ingrained from generation to generation. Hopefully our children will overcome by the opening of borders, broader communication, and having common goals of betterment for all. My 2 cents.

Boo hoo, get back to work before I steal more of your 401k serf!