Thread regarding Honeywell International Inc. layoffs

A few people do deserve to be PIPed, but most are victims of the PIP quota. Yes, the quota is very real.

Guess I'm really confused as to why anyone would want to work at a large corporation that provides no medical, dental or vision benefits?

I got PiP at age 60. I retired at 62. Your decision on what to do. By the time I got out, the company was unbearable to me. Just babysitting engineers in India s---s on many levels. Nothing but ridiculous procedures with no common sense. One is not allowed to question anything. If you do you are labeled as a non team player. There are still some smart worker bees left there. But, no one wants to hear your ideas. Just do what comes down from on high. The atmosphere is shut up, your lucky you have a job here. It is your career, you decide what you are going to do. Good Luck 👍

Great posting.

There is a lot of griping and whining on this posting board just as there was in the halls and offices of HON when I worked there. If you spend a fair bit of your day b--ching about the latest changes, I guarantee your performance has dropped off. If you feel miserable about your career, either find a way to change your attitude or spend your b--ch time finding another job. Whining is not going to change the course of the company or of your circumstance.

Don't get why people bother to climb out of a pip. When you're piped you work hard to find another job not to get out of the pip. Working hard to survive the pip is slave mentality.

I, too, was PIP’d at 58. But mine was for totally proven made up reasons that, even though I had factual hard proof the allegations were false, no one cared. I was basically told it was just my turn. It s---ed! But like the OP of this post, I decided that when I left Honeywell it would be on my terms not theirs. I met the pip requirements, and I survived. Unlike the OP of this post, I knew throughout that everything they told me I had done was a lie. But it didn’t matter; I wanted to keep my job.

Fast forward 2 years. Laid off at 60 due to ‘outsourcing’. Haha, I should have known! 90% of the RIF this spring was over 50.

I wasn’t quite ready to retire, so hit the ground running and started looking for another job. Landed a great one before my severance package ran out, better job better company better pay. It’s out there, people; you just have to work hard and consistently daily at finding that new job. Network out and it will come to you!

That being said, I look back at my time at Honeywell and realize how much it really did s---, but it wasn’t so much the company as the management. The leaders at Honeywell are very clueless on how to be a good leader. Management by fear and intimidation never works well in the long run.

I know of 3 people who survived their PIP. I also know of at least 3 more who didn't. When managed correctly, I think it is a good tool.

Lab technicians are notorious for being complacent. That's why I always did my own lab work.

I see poor performance being rewarded. It does not matter. It only matters who you are friends with. There is always someone who never met you looking at spreadsheets and if your number is picked you will have to go. What do you do if your boss comes to you and says here do this now, a project for 2-3 people dumped on you. Tells you to think outside the box, be an entrepreneur, manage it. I see this happening. It is not fun.

I suspect that the PIP quota is real....and I have heard scrambling by middle management to spin PIPs as a good and helpful tool. The funny thing is, a few years ago, if you had a so-so year, you might get a small raise or no raise. Now days they skip over the no raise message and go straight to a PIP. I think that is telling. I noticed a few things in my PIP meeting that indicate my immediate management wasn't really comfortable with delivering the PIP (meaning that perhaps it wasn't entirely their idea). Or maybe they just were not comfortable with the language used in the official HR forms and letters - which are very strongly worded (ie; downright harsh). Just the same, I was starting to slip out of drive gear and into neutral a bit too soon.

For the Jim Pinto question: Just Google JimPinto Weblog. Jim maintained a discussion board for several companies (very similar to this board) until 2012. He got fed up with the negative cheap-shot stuff posted at his site (with his good name on it) and pulled the plug. I understand that he is a well respected industry observer. I think the old postings are still online.

Wasn't good enough by HON standards to continue working there past 62. Was plenty good enough to do the same exact work as a contractor for several years. Do the math. HON doesn't want the health care cost liabilities that go with retaining older employees. Try not to take it personally. I know I had problems with that.

Every business had a quota to put 5% of people in the elbow. Not everyone deserved it. I know people who were in the same position and then exited the PIP 3 months after their year-end review. I think that the quota was met, and either there were good managers who knew their PIP'd employees didn't deserve it and worked to help get them off, or legal was afraid of an "over 50" class action lawsuit. It's a nice story, and I'm glad it turned out well for you and that you believe it, but the people I know weren't "complacent." They were part of the quota.

Link to Pinto's site ?

Thanks for the input everyone. This is my first post here. Before TheLayoff I used to read Jim Pinto's site. I'm surprised and pleased with the well intentioned replies so far. I'm signing off now for the night. Thanks again.

Interesting. Thought provoking. Well stated. I'm going to mull this one over for awhile. You might be onto something that I need to consider. Like I said, I am a good tech. Suddenly, I wasn't quite a good as I use to be. And there is the "Meets results" vs "below Honeywell behaviors" thing. Are the behaviors more important than the results? Thanks for the input.

I hadn’t been PIPed when I bailed for early retirement, but I was exhausted from years of being asked to do more, with less, for diminishing compensation, in order for other people to make more money. Complacency is an easy label for not buying into the model that all gains must go to the stockholders and executives, and that the numbers are more important than getting any real satisfaction from doing a job well.

Thank you!

It’s all about the head count. They don’t care about performance or working hard. Not even the revenue you generate. You can be good even great at what you do end the end someone has to go. I survived 2 PIPs figured I had 1 more to go. Now I work at a Prime Subcontractor that values my skills even at 64. I had to relocate but only for 4 days a week. Now my biggest pressure is the twice a week commute. Once you get used to not being whipped it feels great. Just remember that you control how you feel. It’s hard to break away from what you are used to. But once you do you will feel invigorated

peace

I know that I may be on borrowed time. I'm not counting on anything, I'll just do my job well, and see what happens. My boss is a good guy, and he is short staffed. But, if I suddenly find myself outside, I won't be surprised. Thanks for the reality check.

Good luck, OP. Going to be hard to not make a mistake for the next 2 years - especially if they are looking for anything. Was in the same situation as you after my PIP. If your number is up there is nothing you can do about it. Don't make it too hard on yourself the odds are not in your favor.

It's not nonsense. This is what happen to me. And I kind of brought it on myself by not paying attention to the evolution all around me. I have a family, with teens still at home, and I really got scared, especially about the options for seamless health insurance. My kids are almost adult age. My wife has her own insurance, but for me age 59 is not medicare 65. I don't have debt. The house is paid off, and I have money in the bank. Still, age 62 with early Social Security makes things a lot easier. I understand your viewpoint. I really thought that Honeywell HR executive management was going to take the opportunity to get rid of me. It is only a few days ago when I signed my end of PIP in good standing form that I considered the possibility that, despite the unfortunate experiences of many people who post here, just maybe Honeywell is not hell bent on getting rid off every older worker. And I gotta tell ya, as a lab technician, I really am pretty good.

What do you work in HR and get paid to write this nonsense?

From the author: Just realized that I was 59, not 58 when the PIP landed.