It looks like inside sales is growing and outside sales may see some good people leave in Q1 due to lousy bonus plans, but not massive layoffs like a lot of people predicted would inevitably happen at the end of Q4. There is some realignment though so some folks being told to move to a different team and in some cases, a different part of the country but not being "let go"...is anyone seeing anything different?
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@TrZlkRa-qhd - continued...
There are developers I know in their 50s who can't or won't try to learn anything new. But there are people like me who are still young and interested in learning the next thing. People should be evaluated on their actual skillset and it should not be assumed that someone older isn't interested in working on the next thing.
When I was young, there was an older developer who I thought the company should just lay off. He wasn't interested in doing anything, and he would even say "i'm just waiting for retirement". From that day I vowed NOT to be that person. To always watch out for the next thing and be prepared. And I did that. I did exactly what I should have done to improve my skills.
The people who took the project from me are in their mid-forties, one just over 50. So there wasn't much age difference. But they were skilled manipulators and I was not prepared for that. I knew the project couldn't be done without me, but they were too clueless to even know that. You can't count on the management or anyone you work with at Oracle to be able to tell how much work a particular application takes, especially when most of the developers only know ADF and are not interested in learning anything new. If you are someone who knows that you are the one with the experience in a particular area, you are not safe because of that.
The management is clueless about real software development.
There are people who are corrupt and want to take whatever looks good to them and they will lie to make that happen.
They can replace you with 5 people in India and rationalize that that will work better than the experienced person they are getting rid of.
You are not safe, no matter what you do. People are laid off for personal reasons mostly related to management loyalty. That's why there are no yearly reviews. You are not being evaluated on your skills.
My thoughts on ageism:
When I was young I was a half decent C programmer, but I had never written a line of Windows code (this was back in the 3.x days). But because I was young a potential employer figured that I could quickly learn and they hired me. A copy of Petzold's "Programming Windows" was thrown at me and I did my best to come up to speed as fast as possible, which took a few months. There is little doubt in my mind that had I been in my 50's instead of my 20's, with exactly the same qualifications, that I would have been passed over. I know this because this was when defense contractors (this was in San Diego) were firing people left and right, and I'm sure some were C programmers, yet my employer didn't hire a single one of them, only young people.
If you can stay on top of things, you will have a job regardless of age.
This is not true. I am in my late 50s. I worked on on-premise software but knew that I would need to learn web tech. So several years ago I spent my own time writing some websites to learn about that.
Then I wrote a very complex web application at Oracle. I was attacked and forced to leave. The group that took the application, had no clue what they were doing. All ADF people and completely clueless about any real web application. Project died over the next year+.
The upper level management saw me as in a category where I could not learn anything new. This was complete crap. I am still a better engineer than 99% of the garbage engineers that work at Oracle and cling to their jobs because they can't get another one.
Keeping your skills up-to-date will not help you are Oracle. They want the older people out because they cost more, period. And their experience is a threat to the incompetent management and clueless airhead engineers that are the general population at Oracle.
If you are going to update your skills, don't bother thinking you can re-purpose yourself at Oracle. Go elsewhere.
When does leadership come to their senses and realize that 23 year olds with little to no real world experience, let alone any clue what enterprise software is and how to run a complex 18 month sales cycle, aren't remotely capable of bringing in the types of revenues this company needs out of its sales orgs to survive? This just seems like a completely misguided strategy, and one that will likely lead to Oracle's continued demise.
Field sales, or whatever's actually left of it, keeps the lights on in this place. Period.
I don't agree with the whole ageism thing. As people get older, they get families, their time gets spent doing other things. There is not as much time to learn new things and keep sharpening the saw. Before you know it, you have skills that are obsolete and no one values. If you can stay on top of things, you will have a job regardless of age.
It is not as easy to “break in” to the new tech catagories like IoT, machine learning, data science and so forth. Lots of programming,so if you do not do that no one will hire you. Most of the jobs posted require at least a BS CompSci, many want a Masters degree. Even if you can spend the money, get the degree and and not go broke doing so, no guarantee of a job. Especially if you are over the age of 40. Forget about employer training, Hardly anybody does that anymore.
A ton of ageism out there. It is reaching critical mass. IBM has been sued about this. They won’t be the last.
Why would you want to relocate knowing you will get laid off anyway?
You get 1 week at IBM regardless of how long you’ve worked there.
"Oracle is gentle compared to what'S going on out there."
At least the severance is relatively generous compared to other places. I know plenty of people who got 2 weeks severance at other companies.
OD is MH's strategy for eviscerating the rest of the sales organization -- of course OD Sales is fine and growing.
"Have you looked around lately? Which company is not stabbing us these days? "
The industry is going through a fundamental transformation as Cloud is causing a shift from on-premise to a more outsourced model. But there is also a surge of new tech (e.g. blockchain, IoT, machine learning, etc) that is rapidly growing and creating new jobs. Have you looked around lately? Not every company is doing poorly and there are many places that are better than Oracle.
Unless you are young and relatively inexpensive, growth opportunities in Oracle are few and far between. Look out for yourself and make sure to keep your skills updated.
Yes this is the plan. Sales via OD and Pre-Sales via the Hubs. Existing Sales and Pre-Sales out - Sales will be fired for not reaching quotas. Pre-Sales will be offered packages. I spoke to a friend yesterday and June 1 he is moving to a Hub team from traditional field sales consulting role. They will be hiring in OD through Class Of. Hubs got a plan for 300 heads. Hiring is not complete.
Looks like OD Prime is gone already in APAC.
word dude!
The hubs are hiring like gangbusters. If some layoffs get delayed today, it’s because the hubs simply aren’t fully staffed and trained to take over just yet, but you can be sure it’s coming.
@TrZlkRa-ahd: gentle? I guess you didn't know anyone RIF'd the Friday before labor day in the US last year. And as the last poster said, telling someone their job is being moved to another part of the country, is a classic way companies try to get people to quit without having to pay a severance! One day you will be a victim too. Oracle is sinking, it will be a slow death.
I am here to find out about layoffs, not to rant about what makes Oracle a terrible company. Have you looked around lately? Which company is not stabbing us these days? Oracle is gentle compared to what'S going on out there.
:@TrZlkRa — Why are you posting this? Your chipper optimism reads like typical HR gas lighting. If people are being told to move to a different part of the country (on their own dime, no doubt), that’s job cutting straight out of the IBM playbook. Not many people with spouses, kids, and established lives are gonna jump at the chance to uproot their lives for a company they know will stab them in the back with no warning.