Thread regarding Corinthian Colleges Inc. layoffs

26008, I'm not sure what you're talking about? I am current faculty for CCI as well as several other traditional institutions. My point was that the other poster said he/she has never heard of instructors being able to drop students, but in reality that is the norm. CCI is backwards and has been since the day I started here. Outreach is nonsensical, and no matter how many emails or Talisma interactions I log, these students DO NOT CARE. Maybe you were referring to another poster?

Outreach doesn't work. Deans, AD's and PD's will tell you otherwise. But they all have to pretend it does to bullshit the DOE, and now Fitzgerald. I've been able to get students to do their work. But that's not a success. That's just late work. At what other college is it normal to have meetings to brag that students got their work done? They're supposed to get their work done. Why are we all patting ourselves on the backs when they do?

I've got to go. I just did Outreach and I have to get to 'filing official withdrawal paperwork.' Now, where do I get that again?

Outreach doesn't work. Leadership might claim it does, but everyone knows that's crap.

25981, you are assuming this goes on during add/drop. Not so. This goes on every week throughout the term. (I'm assuming you don't work for CCI, since you don't know we have terms or understand Outreach.) We have Outreach, where the instructor is bound by their contract to call and email students who do not attend for the week, do not add to the discussion for the week, do not turn in graded assignments AND if their grade drops below 70%. This is week after week, all term long. And it's the same students week after week all term long. And it takes longer to do Outreach than it does to actually teach a course. I know. You're jealous. Don't bother applying. We are NOT hiring any time soon!

25981, at a traditional college or university, an instructor can add and remove from the roster during add/drop. Not after that. And not because a student is mad. but, then again, at a traditional college or university, it's not the instructors' jobs to chase down students and apparently, read their minds now. It's their own responsibility.

25972, new* faculty, not "not" faculty. Sorry for the typo.

25972, it sounds like you're either not faculty or probably have never worked outside of For-Profit "education" then. At normal community colleges AND universities, instructors have much more power, and rightly so. For my community college courses, if a student doesn't show up to class for the week, I drop them. They're gone. That's the way it works. Now, that said, students can also drop themselves, as long as it's before the drop date for the semester. In both scenarios, the student gets a full refund of the tuition for that course, and a "w" on their record. Of course CCI doesn't follow this procedure, because how would they make money from underprepared, naive students?

Withdrawal is when a student takes responsibility for his or her own life and goes and talks to the proper person to drop his or her class. Now students are victims of their own words and it's further CCI's responsibility to do MORE for them? Instructors can't just drop students. It doesn't work that way. And so what if they say something when they're mad. That does NOT constitute withdrawal. If it does, we would have been told to fill out the 'official drop paperwork' for them. That's hilarious. Official Drop Paperwork. Financial Aid Fraud. Comedian, that poster. HILARIOUS!

I'm on the ground. We don't have the ability to drop students. I don't know who posted that (management who doesn't want to do their jobs?) but I've never heard of a college or university in which the instructors or professors drop their students. They take attendance and report attendance.

1. What is Official Drop Paperwork? I'm also online, and I've NEVER heard of any official drop paperwork?????? That seems to me that's the Dean's job to withdraw a student, not the instructor. I've worked at other for profits and I've NEVER dropped a student there either. Students tell me to stop calling all the time. It's not a withdrawal. It's just them not wanting to talk to their instructor. None of them WANT to withdraw. That's NOT their intent. They want to use the laptops and collect the stipends and continue to dodge classes. But, it doesn't matter anyway. We probably aren't going to get to next term anyhow.

25953, as an online instructor, we have NO access to attendance records or withdrawal or anything. We have access to our classrooms. That's it. I'm not going to become an attendance specialist, a student services rep, a financial aid consultant in addition to outreach and instructing. None of those are my jobs, nor am I taking them on. I'm the lowest paid person on the totem pole. Nobody told me if a student says they aren't coming, that's withdrawal. That actually sounds untrue, but whatever. It's management's issue, NOT mine. Sorry. And, let's not worry about legalities, here. I'm pretty sure CCI doesn't. There were some MAJOR attendance issues last term. Like I said, not my job. I have NO ACCESS to any of those records. Zero. Zilch. None.

What's sadder, that they have to do it, or that they have meetings where they pat themselves on the back for getting students to actually do work?

29593, that's never been something I've ever been told. They have to sign papers to withdraw. If they tell us to stop bothering them, that's not withdrawal. That's them being rude. Big difference.

There are some posts on here that I find disturbing from a financial aid perspective as well, but not the backdating attendance appeals part (that sounds illegal as well). If a student says they are not attending and/or to stop bothering them, that is their official date of withdrawal. If instructors are hearing that and not filing official drop paperwork, that is fraud. What I'm hearing here is that students are telling you they have quit and you do nothing except keep harassing them. Seriously, that's financial aid fraud. The moment a student tells ANY staff member that they are no longer attending, that is their official drop date.

I don't think Outreach works. It's never worked for me. This is the Outreach that would work: Do you assignments and pass the class. Then you get stipends. If you don't, you won't. I mean, let's face it. You can get attendance by posting ONCE in the threaded discussion once every 14 days. That's ONE SENTENCE every FOURTEEN DAYS - or SEVEN SENTENCES PER TERM. That's the bare minimum they have to do to get attendance. Yet, they don't even do that and it's the instructors' faults? I've had students who come into the threads and post "Hi! I hope you are all having a great week!" And they get marked present. (This is for online, obviously.) And students can't even be bothered to do that. It's just the saddest mess ever. But, put it on the instructors. I mean, we don't even design the curriculum for crying out loud. How is it our fault if they hate the class? And when did education become entertainment? I had so many classes I hated, instructors I hated. But, did that matter? No. You go to class and do the work. Unless you are a CCI student. Then you do nothing and collect your stipend.

Ed is more interested in what the outreach is accomplishing. For example, do call logs match up with attendance? If they saw a successful connection and then suddenly a backdated attendance appeal is put in, or attendance in the online class is counted, then the outreach is not to aid in student retention/success, but to try to defraud the government by playing with attendance rules. The last chain I worked at was caught doing that.

I think it's more of a due diligence scenario. I'm sure when the Department of Education has gone over our retention rates they've noted how high they are when compare to community colleges; however, since we do SOOOO much outreach, they can demonstrate that it isn't entirely their/our fault.

That's placement, not retention. Career services has a habit a placing a student into short-term assignment and documenting that as a placement in field of study. Retention is about how much revenue the student brought into to the school.

Did you know they also advertise 'small class sizes'? They sure are. Once everyone drops out or stops participating!!!!!!

25097, if the retention rate is 80% (which is FAR higher than even non profit rates) then they are FAKING records. FAKING them. Retention rate is NOT 80%. It is more like 40% to 60%.

I'm sure career services will maintain their claimed 80% placement rate.

They're all making them up. There's no way. I've been doing this a LONG time, and I've yet to be successful. I am an instructor. Not an Outreach specialist. I do the most basic and minimal outreach I am required so I can collect my paycheck. If they want more, pay me to do more. Or pay someone else and let me get back to teaching. As it is, Outreach is about half of my job. But, that's cool. The curriculum is a ridiculous joke.

I had a student scream at me to stop calling and followed up with an email to tell me that I knew she wasn't going to have time for the class and to leave me alone. I was only successful in pissing off yet another student. Should I brag about that one?

Outreach does not work. The students who choose not to participate have signed on to school solely to take the stipend checks. They seem to have no interest in participation. It DOES NOT WORK. And those stupid stories and emails they send out (chili pepper!!!!) are crap. Wow! They get one student to bother to come to class or do an assignment. But, ask yourself, where are the success stories where they've bragged AFTER the term that the student went from F to passing. There are NONE. The Outreach 'success stories' aren't really even successes. They're just bragging a failing student did an assignment. That failing student likely disappeared after completing that one assignment. They can't possibly recruit students using the method and choosing the population they do and then expect success in the classroom. If they did, they'd have a much higher retention and employment placement rate. It's all bullsit. And they're probably keeping the bullshit going to try to impress Fitzgerald. Because anyone who's been in a classroom at Everest knows EXACTLY what students they've recruited. And I'm not trying to put the students down here. That's NOT my point. But, if they aren't prepared for college level work (which, let's face it, Everest is not really) or they lack basic reading and writing skills, then how can they succeed? I read somewhere on this board that they actually have students sign away their right to get TUTORS!! TUTORS!!! Why would they ask students in need to do that? To save money? To ensure the students will NOT be successful. It's a joke. And leadership knows it. And the funniest part is they try to bullshit us with 'success' stories. What's been so successful? We're about to sell or close. How's that a success?

In the old days (before CCI), the Heald brand did NOT have an out reach program. The only time they would call a student, was to offer support or resources. That was only done when someone (student or employee) came forward with information, student XXX has an issue (death in family, in hospital, etc). After CCI acquired Heald, they were forced to harass students. The big difference here, was the quality of students. In the old days, Heald had students who could read and write, and were in school for the right reasons. CCI lowered Heald's entrance requirements, lowered education standards, and allowed students to pass classes no matter what. In addition, they hired used car sales people to work in admissions. They also rewarded female admissions advisers who dressed like sluts and flirted with perspective students. In regards to out reach, many of us told students to request in writing to be placed on the DO NOT CALL LIST. Out reach is a waste of time, money and resources. The key to out reach is not out reach. Bring in quality students and out reach is not needed.

That's because execs see them as animals that just exists to collect welfare, including financial aid. They probably think that classroom experience is irrelevant to our students and that they wouldn't know the difference. Outreach is seen as herding them to get them in line and doing something...anything that can count as attendance. That keeps the aid dollars flowing.

All the time and energy on calling non-performing students instead of actually improving the classroom experience for those who do attend.

I have never had a success story. Just lots of disrespect, and needless data entry. What a bad use of time. Rather than teaching thosevthat wanted to learn, I was chasing losers.

I had a student telling me they were sitting on the toilet taking a dump, to stop calling, f off, or they will report me. I had to call them week after week like a robot hoping not to suffer more verbal abuse, but they never answered again. Documented in Talisma of course.