Thread regarding Honeywell International Inc. layoffs

They want you gone, but they don't want to pay severance, etc. PIP is a loosely-veiled strategy for "constructive dismissal." In other words - they want to make your life a living hell so you will quit, thus relieving them the burden of having to find someone to RIF as well as having to pay whatever severance, etc. your labor laws require.

Document the living daylights out of everything performance-related; your manager is not likely to do so. Show that you make changes, following the instructions/suggestions of your manager. Find out what they think your challenges/problems are, and actively work on those – and DOCUMENT THE PROOF. (Send emails to your home address, etc. Do not assume you will be given access to ANYTHING – act like you are going to be escorted out in the next hour.)

Don't hesitate to ask your customers, colleagues, co-workers, etc. to send you "thank you" and "well done" emails, and don't hesitate to ask them to CC: your manager. It might feel difficult at first, but if you say "My manager and I aren't getting along these days, can you help? I'm trying to work on XX and it would be nice to show that someone appreciated what I did" it generally does the trick. Any Honeyweller will recognise the code you're speaking. When you receive those emails, SAVE THEM - send them to a safe location offsite. And record whether or not your manager mentions them, either in the course of normal work or as part of your PIP review meetings.

Do your best to make your PIP a TEAM effort – in other words, try to make your "success" at improving your performance part of your Manager's responsibility. (Read any 'management' book and they'll say that's part of the job!) But don't expect much out of them – just document (and save, in a safe location accessible by YOU) what they do, or don't do,

Be fastidious about sending reports to your manager before/after every PIP meeting, documenting all the things you did, and yes; the questions you have for your manager and your requests for the things that THEY'RE supposed to do in support of your efforts. But don't expect them to read your reports or do anything to help you.....just save your reports, and your records of sending them to your manager, in that safe secure non-Honeywell place you're using.

You don't have to "lawyer up" just yet, but you should think ahead, and gather evidence just in case you need to.

If/when your PIP is wrapping up and you haven't received any "wow, what a fantastic improvement, you're a GREAT employee!" feedback you can consider sending your HR rep (CC: your manager or not, you decide) a note saying "Here's some of the great reviews I got from customers and colleagues, here's a few of the status reports I sent my manager asking for their help - which never came - and now my PIP is coming to an end; what's next?"

Your HR rep is likely going to take the "teaser" evidence you've shared to the lawyers. They will take their time in analysing it, but hopefully they'll come back with "if they haven't left by this point, we can't fire "for cause" and squirm out of paying severance, there might even be a problem if they take us to court – lay them off but be generous with severance to keep them quiet."

If you can't tell, this is EXACTLY what happened to me. I got more severance than I was willing to accept, and every day I am actively and consciously grateful that I am no longer working at Honeywell.

Good luck and trust me: there are some AWESOME organisations out there.....the working world is not all like Honeywell.
Do not expect any good/new/interesting assignments, do not expect praise, do not expect any raises. PLAN NOW FOR A CHANGE IN CIRCUMSTANCE.

In my case, I was able to generate and collect enough evidence

No, a PIP is not a flag that you are going to be laid off unless you really did something to deserve one. PIPs are given out on a rotating basis in a lot of departments to justify the mandated percentages of outer elbows and zero-percent raises.

It IS a sign that your department doesn't consider you one of their best employees. You WOULD be much better off finding another company values their employees and doesn't play the stupid "no matter how good our employees are 10% of them must be bad" game.

Yes. It’s the first step to being fired. Start looking for jobs yesterday. This is your shot across the bow. Don’t be surprised when you’re let go at the end of the PIP. The results towards your PIP are subjective to your manager. Take action and look for alternative employment immediately. You still have some time. Don’t waste it.

And while they're at it, get rid of the any-agers like the ones who post here saying they're just doing the minimum. Because the "retired in place" are probably contributing more than that, and actually know things without having to google them.

@2pps does bring up a good point. I'm older, but bust my chops to do good every day. Never felt threatened or intimidated, always get pretty decent review feedback. However, I personally know dozens of older folks that have "retired in place", and have no desire or willingness to contribute. These people SHOULD be targeted, because they add no value. JMHO.

It's not age discrimination if you are too lazy to actually do your job, or if you have no desire to advance yourself, learn new things or new ways to do things, or you have a really bad and negative attitude, and you also happen to be older.

Honeywell is huge into USA age discrimination. Actually should be investigated or class action suit started.

Apologies in advance for being on topic. But,

"will i get let go after this?"
Possibly, but getting put on a PIP and getting fired or riffed do not necessarily have anything to do with each other.

"does it mean i got “fired”?"
No. If you still have a job, you did not get fired. You may get fired later but you have not already been fired.

"If i were to look for another job if they let me go after this, will HW disclose that i got terminated due to PIP?"
No. They will probably get nothing out of Honeywell.The most a prospective employer will get is the fact that you used to work there. Maybe the dates of your employment. But that's all.

Carry on.

When I got PIP’d, I didn’t get a raise for that pay cycle nor for the next two pay cycles and I couldn’t transfer to another dept because I was In the nine-block elbow. I was then laid off four years after the PIP. Prior to the PIP I was a 2 in the nine-block. Your mileage may vary. Good luck.

@1uav+19JwkwxX ... and all your brave compatriots urging us to fight the PIP system.
Just one question – why are you 'anonymous'?
If you are so brave stand up and be counted – use your name.
Yeah, I didn't think so.

There's nothing Honeyhell would like more than to eliminate ALL U.S. based employees (except for Darius' ego-support battalion). They love the thought of low-cost workers churning out software around the clock never complaining, or threatening a union vote. Unfortunately, those darned military contracts require U.S. citizens to sling code and slap together hardware, but one day the corporate pimps will gain enough control in Congress to loosen the reigns of the Pentagon and all our defense secrets can flow freely out of the USA. Speaking of which, who dreamed up putting the I.T. department in India?

As others have said, use the PIP as motivation to get the HELL out of this sinking slave ship. At Moneyhell you'll never measure up to someone in your review-chain. And yes, I got and survived a PIP, only to be let go at the first opportunity during a RIF. They meant it for evil, but it turned into my blessing.

PIP and outer elbows aren’t good for Honeywell either, if I have a peer who I’m ranked against about to make a mistake, think I’m going to stop them or help? Better they get in a PIP than me. Destroys teamwork in my opinion, it would hurt my position and career to help a teammate better themselves or succeed or look better in the eyes management.

Sometimes it's less what we say than how we say it. We all know the PIP system and other anti-employee transgressions are wrong. If someone puts up with it because it's the only way they have at the moment to feed their kids, a generalized lecture from you about tyranny, hero Rosa Parks, and the direction of this country is neither germane nor helpful to their situation.

If you are ready to lead with an actual SOLUTION to the problems at Honeywell, instead of shotgunned, quasi-political rhet0r!c, stand up and lead. If not, stop gigging already-stressed-out people with idealistic generalizations and move along.

Wow, so much anger at someone telling the truth. Too bad you don't react so angrily against those who lie and cheat. I won't trouble you any more, your not worth the bother. The country won't even exist in 200 years. It will be just another dictatorship. You will be enslaved by those you are defending. Pitiful.

Fight the PIP? What would "winning" look like?

After months of stress and emotional torture you may get more severance (split with your attorney) OR you get the pleasure of still working for a manager/company that no longer wants you.

I've seen people destroy their lives "fighting it".

With very few exceptions it's not worth it.

It's so irritating to see cowards telling OTHERS to f!ght when they have no intention of putting any skin in the game themselves.

Honeywell corporate wants fewer employes, smaller company, more cash. Always be looking for other opportunities, network and use linked in. I think any kind of a fight with Hon would just be a huge distraction for you and take way too much time. If you are going to leave best to leave and have Hon pay you something for it. Meaning getting a RIF package isn't all that bad. Geting RIF'd in 2016 and geting 22 weeks pay (plus back then we got unused vacation pay and a month later got my band 4 MIP) was a great deal for me. I had a new job 3 months later and got some time to relax. Corporate America doesn't care about RIFs. Part of how we work now. I got my biggeest pay increases by switching companies.

Okay, @1pab, lay out your plan for how to fix injustice within HW. We're listening. And if you actually work for the company, do you stand ready to lead the f!ght?

@1mes, nobody has said or even implied that what the company does is remotely okay. Unfortunately, the PIP system is standard operating procedure for HR at many large corporations, though HW is overuses it and plays it dirtier than most other companies.

That said, if YOU are so up in arms about it, YOU be the hero to take action to fix the broken system. Don't keep p-ssing on people who have weighed their options in terms of their time, emotions, and finances, and are simply biding their time and feeding their kids as they look for something better.

Since you are the only one here pitching a fuss, it stands to reason that YOU should be the one to ride into HR on your golden steed, lawyers in tow, and fix everything. It's easy, right? If you're not going to do that, then leave everyone else alone about it.

I don't look at this site very often as it makes me worry for the country. This country fielded the greatest generation that preserved world freedom. What would they think reading these posts that I've seen here. If you tolerate injustice, you become part of it. If everyone fought for their rights as someone suggested, the company would stop their abuse pretty quickly. Live up to the wonderful heritage of courage and commitment you were given. This is the greatest country on earth, do your part to make sure that will always be true.

Some people would have told Rosa Parks to just give up her seat, it wasn't worth it. Don't cross that bridge, you'll get beaten. Go ahead, cower and let this evil system perpetuate itself. It depends on your silence. Some people make a difference, some people take a stand. Make up your mind whether your a man or a mouse. The people telling you to accept injustice are the people committing the injustice. They tell you that they have a right to lie and harm you. And if you think that HR departments don't talk to each other in detail, you are being foolish. The heads in Silicon Valley have been caught many times colluding to not poach each other's talent and keep wages low. So much for the the lie of the free market system. The systems are full of corruption and systemic racism. these people would have told Lincoln that freeing the slaves would cause too much trouble. They are right about one thing, if you were good enough to be hired by honeybucket, you are definitely too good to be working for them. Get another job and leave these p1ss ants in the rear view mirror. They are on the wrong side of history.

Not worth the stress and aggravation. Keep applying elsewhere where you can be treated as a human being. Eventually you'll find one though it may take some time. A lot of folks have made it out and found a better place.

First: you are going into a high stress period in your life. Do not let it destroy you. Focus on eating right and exercising. Easy on the vices.

Second: try to figure out the real reason you were PiPed. The reason you were given was probably a lie. Did you recently get a new manager...etc...

Third: Think critically. Do you deserve a PiP? Have you been performing well?

Fourth: Definitely jump thru the hoops in the PiP process. There is little upside in lawyering up and trying to fight it. A PiP is a good reminder how powerless an employee is.

Finally: Shame on all those at Hon that support this toxic malicious process that does nothing more than destroy lives. Shame on you for letting this happen.

To the OP: watch a ton of YouTube videos and lean on trusted friends within Hon for advice. Best of luck.

This is "Definitely NOT an HR Troll" again, adding 1b to my previous post:

1b. If you file a lawsuit, not only can potential employers discover it, everyone can. That means your family, friends, sports teammates, old boyfriends/girlfriends, church mates, etc. Everyone. Simply by googling your name.

What they can see may vary, but may include news items around the case, the actual transcripts, etc. The "charges" made against you in the PIP and additional $mut piled on in the ensuing lawsuit will be visible to all, causing some people to wonder how much of it was true.

Filing a lawsuit over a piddly little internal PIP could actually have the same net effect as if you did have your character publicly defamed. In no way am I saying this to protect the company (I've already been RIF'ed, but was never on a PIP). I'm saying it to help you "pick your battles" intelligently so that you can save your resources for the important things in life.

OP, the person who is insisting that you should "lawyer up" is the real coward here because they want YOU to fight a fight that may (or may not) in the end help them when it's their inevitable turn in the PIP jar. If they are so keen on having a w@rr!0r for PIP ju$+i e within HW, let them find others on PIP, hire an attorney and expert witness psychologists, and initiate a cl@$$ a +ion su!t against the company for unfair practices. I'm sure that will get far.

Let's look at this from the practical standpoint of "stress on you" (emotional and financial) vs. what you stand to gain or lose by fighting the PIP.

1. A PIP is internal to Honeywell. Since potential employers can only find out that you worked at HW for a specific period, the only people who will ever know you were PIP'ed are your management, HR, and the people you tell. No "defamation of character" will follow you around for life. If you want to stay at HW for now, just keep it to yourself and meet the terms of the PIP.

1a. If you file a lawsuit, that information is public domain and can be discovered by agents of potential employers in the future. Who wants to hire a "troublemaker"? See #1 and #3 for how insignificant a PIP is compared to a lawsuit.

2. In the business world, far beyond just HW, people who file lawsuits, win, and stay at the company are ostracized and eventually sneakily tortured out of the organization anyway.

3. As many others have said, there is a PIP quota that management must adhere to, so they understand that though you got a PIP this year, it was just "your turn in the rotation" and it essentially means little in terms of your potential at the company, though it will have a temporary impact on compensation.

4. Though #3 is generally true, if what @1tex said is true at this time, there is nothing to be done anyway, as you have already been placed on the "expendable" list. Why throw good money and stress at fighting the inevitable? It's nothing personal, it's their "strategy" in play.

5. Since this is how the company operates (and others too, I assure you) out of concern for your future it's best to get going on your job search now. If the terms of your PIP are impossible, look harder, leave sooner, and s r3w the PIP. If it's manageable, quietly comply and continue your job search at a comfortable pace (reread #1).

6. If you were put on a PIP simply to make it easier for them to put you on the RIF list when the time comes for the next restructuring, what sense is there to throw thousands of dollars at lawyers and expert witnesses when you risk losing your source of income anyway? (reread #1a)

Wishing you the best possible outcome for your personal well being.

Your compensation is already baked into the Q2 restructuring cost as part of the 2 / 10 AOP with EBITA earnings MIP for Executives. You are planned to be off the payroll as direct labor or indirect labor SGA by June 30th. Depends on your role.

Pack anything that is personal at your workplace. Expect no new assignments or work of value. If it small task needing done, it will be thrown at you to get as much out of you before your planned exit with 1 week severance for every year worked baked into the AOP.

It's pretty much game over.

If your PIP deals with psychology/behavior, ask your manager if he/she has qualifications in behavioral science. If he/she doesn't, insist on a someone who does. I used this to great effect one year when a coworker was PIPed over behavioral issues (soft spoken Vietnamese male manager did not like loud-spoken women!) Also PIP does not necessarily mean RIF. I was RIFFed and never had a PIP; had glowing reviews with only 1 average one in 30+ years. And I am a minority. I attribute my RIF to being 63. A year later, I'm making my previous Band 4 salary's worth in dividends on my 401K (transferred to a place that actual pays good dividends and makes great investments).

If you are afraid of a coward, what does that make you?

I knew a manager that had real courage. He was ordered to lie about his employees or else. He refused and was fired. That was a real man, a real man with courage and conviction. Of course these weasels didn't want him in their company. They prefer people who are afraid.

ignore the person who told you not to lawyer up over a PIP. Why not, they're lawyered up. They have no right to lie about you. Of course they have no honor but you should. What kind of person would advise you to shut up and take the lies? Of course it follows you. You may lose your raise and bonus if you earned it. It takes out value from your pay curve that you never get back. It will affect you the rest of your career with the company and now they know you're a chicken and will lay down for them. And why? Because some cowardly bully lies about you and is too spineless to stand up for their employee? Get a lawyer and stand up for yourself. No one in this company will. Better yet get a lawyer and when your done taking them to court, leave for a better job. Anyplace is better than a company where someone would advise you to let people scr*w you over. I am always shocked by the cowardice and lack of honor I read about in this forum. What a joke!

@1zgc+19JwkwxX – the biggest risk for layoffs involves the color of your hair. If it has gone grey, or perish the thought white, best start taking you personal belongings home. You are a short timer for sure. Honeywell has a well deserved reputation for blatant age discrimination. Don't kid yourself.

@myl

Managers can not push back on 9 block ratings or pips. They have a quota and if they can not fill it, then they will get a pip.

The best a manager can do is argue that someone under a different manager should be put in a 9 block.

Also note, layoffs are not about who is most deserving. They typically come down to whome can be cut and the group can continue to keep working. Or, the employee upset the wrong director.

I have to disagree with @1pxm about lawyering up over a PIP. Even if it was totally manufactured to urge you to leave or to fill the PIP quota, the PIP will not follow you around once you've left the company, so there is no need to worry about defamation of character. And since managers know the game, if you perform well in the future and they want to keep you, they will.

If you want to stay, meet the terms of the PIP on time and get acknowledgment in an email from your boss for each requirement you meet. It won't save you from a RIF, but you will have demonstrated good faith and good form by complying. Plenty of people have been RIF'ed who were not on PIPs.

If you're tired of the nonsense, as others have said, start looking in earnest for your next job.

If what they said is true, just concentrate on completing the PIP and improving. If it is lies, file a formal complaint with HR and get a lawyer. They lawyer will advise you on what to do. They act like they have a right to lie about you. They don't. If they lied, talk to a lawyer about your civil rights, and consider filing a full lawsuit for libel and defamation of character. They have no morals so don't worry about them, protect your rights under the law. Repeat, they do not have a right to lie about you, these issues will become a permanent part of your record. Don't forget, it's not just your manager involved, it is also HR and leadership all the way up the ladder. Don't be a chump for them. You have rights. Don't be afraid of them, they can't hurt you.

Well, I personally know of people who have gone on to management after a PIP. So, just comply with the plan outlined for you and keep it moving. I would look for another job though because I would not stand for a PIP in my file that wasn’t warranted. What exactly did they do to improve your performance prior to the PIP?? I bet you were blindsided because managers will talk behind your back to your team members before they ever try to help you improve.

First PIP is a wake-up call. You can drop any illusions about WoneyHell being a good company that cares about its employees. Start plotting your escape right now, today. Don't take it personally or allow the f—ers to get you down on yourself. Just make a promise to yourself to leave and don't let anything stop you.

Trying to survive in a dying company is always a wall of constant worry which will grind you to a pulp. Best to get out early rather than slowly mutate into one of the "survivors."

Are the PIP requirements reasonable to fulfill or are they impossible? Years ago impossible PIPs were the lead up to RIF at the end of the PIP time period. Tended to be used for general "house cleaning" RIFs.

If there is a RIF you will be first to go. If there is no RIF, there is still a high chance they let you go.
PIP = Early sign to start looking elsewhere and GTFO.

Remember, PIPs can be given any time of the year, not just during reviews. Were the reasons given for your PIP remotely justified? If you have done well in the past, chances are this is just a quota PIP and it was your turn for the rotation. If the reasons were completely fabricated and complete lies, it is probably a quota PIP. (on both my PIPs in the last 5 years of 39 years, I was blamed for stuff I never even worked on before, the justification for PIP was completely manufactured.) Although being on a PIP could push you up on the RIF list. Schedule a weekly meeting with your boss to review your "progress" on your PIP to make sure you are on track to complete it. Even if you don't have anything new to discuss, have a meeting with your boss every week. There is no way to fight a PIP, you just have to go with it. The good news for you is that if it was a quota PIP, you are "excused" from a PIP next year.