Any news on that? Some teams are being informed
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Investigate CX .....lot of them digging gold other than office
This doesn’t often work at Cisco. Think of finance. If you are an IC based in RTP, there is a very high chance your leadership and senior leadership is in San Jose. If you are in Krakow, your leadership is most often in the UK or US. So even if you go into the office regularly, whatever visibility to them is via calls/remote.
They are renovating several buildings in SJ. They are only allocating seats for about 75% of people based locally. So, as somebody said, if we all have to go back into the office for the majority of the week, we'll be on top of each other.
Whether you are in the office or remote, that has little bearing to how visible you to your org and senior leadership
If you believe that, then I cannot help you. It's has a VERY LARGE bearing on it. Is it surmountable - absolutely. But it takes a lot of work. In fact, working on projects remotely, that do not involve people in the main site is the worst.
In that case, you can try and inject yourself into every conversation in a "pick me contest", but they don't really know what you're talking about and care even less.
It’s the unfortunate way of corporate life where just doing your run the business work is not enough and you won’t get a promotion just because you show up in the office
Facts. I was LR'd from a sh---y team and managed to get re-hired 9-ish months later on a different team. The number of times my old team started to reach out to me to ask questions about some system or process that kept things working once they found out I was back was astounding. The person who picked up my work when I was LR'd failed to migrate my documentation from one wiki system to the next one because they either didn't care because it wasn't their primary job, or because they didn't understand how to do my job and simply ignored it, so all my hard work at documenting my work to "run the business" and how to trouble shoot common issues was lost.
Luckily my new team's leadership told my old team's leadership that I was too busy to help them and that they should have maintained their documentation better. They could say that because I was busy writing and updating my new team's documentation because most of that team hated writing it and previously depended on "Joe knows how to do that, ask him" or "That's Bob's stuff, he'll take care of it".
Whether you are in the office or remote, that has little bearing to how visible you to your org and senior leadership. It’s up to you to be involved in high visibility projects/initiatives. I’m in a remote location but am involved in many things and receive recognition regularly for my work on those. It’s the unfortunate way of corporate life where just doing your run the business work is not enough and you won’t get a promotion just because you show up in the office
Possible doesn't mean it's easy, nor will it happen at the same speed.
Yes, you can get to Director/VP when living off-site, but it will take longer. It's clear that my colleagues were promoted more quickly that I was, since I'm really remote (like a continent away).
Another constraint is travel. Getting a ticket to SJ from "a central portion of the US" is still possible, but in current conditions, there is no way will the company pay for a flight across the pond. And as quoted before, our BU has been told that "in person meetings" are a thing of the past.
But this is off the point - I'm not arguing that remote is bad, I'm simply saying that if Cisco now claims remote is bad, then they would spend money to overcome it, but they do not. No consistency there.
For recognition and career advancement, definitely true: "out of sight, out of mind"
And that's why effective communication is important. It doesn't have to be in-person. How does a VP become a VP at Cisco living in the central portion of the US and being a remote worker for the past 25 yrs if "out of sight, out of mind" is the reality. There's also a Sr. Director and 2 Directors in my BU that are, and have been, fully remote for 20+ yrs.
It's obvious that if you're not communicating, you are out of sight and out of mind, but it is possible to stay prominent while remote.
But you are kidding yourself if you think remote workers do as well as people who spend most of their time in an office environment.
For recognition and career advancement, definitely true: "out of sight, out of mind"
Text, Webex, video calls don't replace face to face in person encounters. Augment? Sure. But you are kidding yourself if you think remote workers do as well as people who spend most of their time in an office environment.
The most impactful decisions in any organiztion are made in person, face to face. Many of the most important encounters are "drive bys", those brief but crucial unplanned discussions that occur when you share office space. Remote working is inherently career limiting. Much easier to fire people you rarely see in person.
@8msy+1sMmoFIo, that's old-school. You're showing your age. Many important encounters can be "drive bys", and I preferred to walk over to someone's desk to have a chat about something instead of using Jabber or Webex, and I prefer Webex audio meetings over typing, but I have many co-workers who want to just do text. I find that I can't effectively communicate purely via text because they don't read it closely enough, or if it's a complicated idea/situation, it takes too long to type it up & a voice conversation is much easier. But I find Webex audio calls are just as effective as "drive by" cubical conversations, and possibly even more so because I (or them) can continue to work instead of having to sit there and look at each other and nod occasionally.
My org has 60-70% of the team who don't even live within 2-3 hrs of a Cisco office. The immediate 4 levels of management over me don't live in states w/ Cisco offices, much less in a city that has a Cisco office. The first level of management that is local to a Cisco office in my chain is the SVP of our BU and he reports directly to Chuck, so he has little to no face time w/ Chuck except when he or Chuck travel to the same place. This leader has moved up from IC all the way to SVP, and until he took over the BU, our BU was lead out of SJC so he had no "face time" or "drive by" discussions with his leadership and is certainly had a successful career.
I think it's time you learn to adapt to the connected world.
Actually be at a desk, in your house, during working hours and when on a call have your camera turned on.
It's ridiculous to have 80% of people on a call w/no video on and obviously taking the call from a place where they aren't productive.
@8btw+1sMmoFIo, why is it necessary to have the camera turned on? Given that we can enable "virtual backgrounds", you can't tell if I'm at home or somewhere else just based on the camera being turned on. I absolutely HATE using the camera because the virtual background effect isn't great, and I don't have a $1M mansion like Chuck, Fran, MM, etc. have where they can afford to have a dedicated huge room as a remote office. I have too much personal stuff around me & behind me to turn on my camera. I take all of my meetings at home unless some meeting got scheduled ad-hoc that conflicted w/ a personal appointment I had scheduled weeks ago. But I can't be at my desk during "normal business" hours because I have to support people on both coasts, as well as in AEST and CEST timezones, so due to hybrid work, I do some early morning work/meetings, do personal stuff mid morning, have lunchtime meetings, do more personal stuff in the early afternoon, and then I have late evening meetings or do maintenance / upgrade work in the post 11PM hours. I do personal stuff when I want to and I do work stuff when is most convenient for both work and me, and I meet all my deadlines. Why would I need to be at my desk 9-5? I have work that needs to be done before 9 and after 5 and I sure as he-l ain't giving Cisco free overtime, salaried or not.
They could bring teams together once or twice a year when impactful decisions need to be made, such as for new year planning. To think that F2F is the only way to grow your career or have opportunities is an outdated notion. It may take a bit more effort, but it can be done remotely.
The most impactful decisions in any organiztion are made in person, face to face. Many of the most important encounters are "drive bys", those brief but crucial unplanned discussions that occur when you share office space. Remote working is inherently career limiting. Much easier to fire people you rarely see in person.
Here's a way to prevent a mandatory RTO policy.
Actually be at a desk, in your house, during working hours and when on a call have your camera turned on.
Its ridiculous to have 80% of people on a call w/no video on and obviously taking the call from a place where they aren't productive.
Of course there are times when you are running an errand, at the doctor's office, etc - but it seems to be the same people everyday that are doing something other than being dedicated to their job during normal working hours.
The worst is when 10 people from CX show up on a call and only 2 speak and when someone is called upon its obvious they are doing something else.
Be remote, but treat it like a real job.
Yes, like many people in Cisco, I have zero interaction with others in my local office; all my team are based 1-2 continent(s) away. If "in office" collab was so important, then the company would be investing in getting global teams together. Those meetings (for example to perform FY planning and FY kickoff) were valuable.
But it's been 5 years since my last trip to HQ and we've all now been told that an in-person all-hands will never happen again.
I just heard from someone asking about desk configurations in the local RTP buildings that are open because the Finance BU has been told that they have to return to the office at least 2 days a week. I guess if they don't all come in on the same 2 days, the current office utilization can absorb them, but it does seem to run contrary to the company's stated policy of hybrid work.
Under the hybrid policy, we're only supposed to have to come into the office to collaborate during meetings that need on-site presence. Given how Webex enables geographically separated teams to collaborate, I don't know that "any" meeting really requires in-person attendance except for maybe presenting awards. During lean quarters, Cisco has frequently denied travel for everyone except exec's, so if they can have virtual leadership meetings and other high-level meetings/conferences virtually during lean times, when why is there ever a need to be in-office to collaborate? I have nothing against people going into the office however often they want, but requiring a minimum # of days is against the policy and these leaders who are requiring it need to be held accountable for not complying w/ the company's new work policy.
Errr, how can they ask me to change a place of work when the contract says I don't have one?
You are looking at this through your own narrow lens. We aren't all in zero-hour gig locations like parts of the USA. I have a contract. It's like the difference between casual girlfriend and a wife. You can walk away from "at will" arrangement, but not an employment contract.
Anyway, I don't care, I'll just retire if they want me to move and were able to force it.
My contract specifically calls out that I don't have a place of work
So what makes you think they can't ask you to relocate like every other company?
They absolutely can..
No, they cannot. My contract specifically calls out that I don't have a place of work.
And if they break my contract, then I have 4 months notice and whatever else they have to pay as a result of breaking a labor contract.
Anyway, they've just cut the "local" office (about an hour away) in half, so if they require all remote workers to return, we'll be sitting on top of each other.
How did you come up with that 6 months number ?
As far as I can tell the package is like 3 salaries
if you get LR-ed, consider that you're lucky. the severance alone allows you to rethink your life options for like 6 months at least. there are many good companies out there. cisco is not exactly a good option.
Yes, in order to cover for the lack of people as a result of constant LRs the remaining people at their own homes remotely working harder and harder. I happy to work in office more if there are more local offices in more cities. What this do for Cisco green footprint more and more people driving to office when could have done same at remote?
We will see what happens.
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Happy to go but remote work has meant we have taken on more and work overtime consistently. I see this in all my colleagues. This wasn’t the case before the pandemic/remote work and it does make the transition more challenging, even a few days a week.
I rather work from office than home. I’d fire every remote workers.
Honestly, if my immediate team was in the same city, I would 100% to work from an office.
I remember waaaay back in the day when they were no longer going to expense our internet access. Many were up in arms. And then they said, well...if you need internet access provided by the company, you can go into an office and access it there. It was a whole thing, and in the end, most realised it was better to pay for their own internet versus going into an office. (it always is)
I agree it's ridiculous having to work in an office when no one on your team or even in your state or country is co-located given global teams. Likely case-by case. Wait and see and don't start freaking out until you know exactly what to freak out about. But that's me...
Interesting. I was LR'd from Finance in Feb...already have a job where I do have to go in a few days a week. Commute is 40 min, kind of su-ks but the job is much better. I find it interesting though as I am in RTP area and could do the two days...but my boss was the only other person in the area, others in CA, SC, over seas. None of our business partners were located anywhere near RTP or NC to "collaborate" with in an office. Also, they only have like three buildings out of the 12 or so they had in the past so I am not sure how they will fit all those into the open buildings. I wonder if they are just trying to continue using the real estate that they are stuck with so it does not just become abandoned property.
Ffs.. just f’ing go to the office once In a while stop being such a bunch of entitled princesses!
@2ayv+1sMmoFIo
Entitlement is unreal
Happy to work in the office if they provide an office in my city and not a commute of three hours in each direction. Cisco LRd staff based on fact that people are working remote and not commuting and hence saving time for more productive work. Not of all of us live three blocks from a Cisco office. If commuting then screens down outside core hours and no more free overtime. No answering Cisco calls in the car when commuting. Law of unintended consequences applies here.
Not trolling but compared to other companies, two days in the office seems fair to me.
It’s true in finance. Scott sent a note this week claiming collaboration. Except collaboration is with business partners that are usually dispersed globally so it’s obvious just a BS reason.
I haven’t heard anything like this at all. In fact, we’ve been hiring remote for so long that would cause a decent amount of chaos imo. Heck the Cisco offices around me are really terrible and mostly ghost towns.
Well they are doing it for Finance. Scott sent an email this week
its topics like this, that show you how many people are trolling on this board and dont even work for cisco.
right - after we closed like 90% of all offices during covid...sure that makes sense.
RTO is the next hot topic, and reasons are very clear. Gary knows Splunk employees have their jobs guaranteed for three years. Cisco employees are vulnerable and hence on the chopping block. By forcing RTO, half of remote work force can easily be ki-led or purged, helping with resource right sizing. Some of the remove workers don’t put in enough work hours or have a second job which is a huge no-no at Cisco. Things are moving in the right direction as ELT designed by acquiring Splunk. Hang in tight folks… Fun is just starting.
You can't shoot up the office after an LR if you WFH.
@1imi+1sMmoFIo ironically with this roast I want you in the office to cook some colleagues 😂