Thread regarding Verizon Communications Inc. layoffs

8kob: by that logic all managers would need to know the jobs al all the employees they manage. if that were the case, nobody could rise beyond a certain point. There'd be far too much to learn in a lifetime.
An analogy.... your logic dictates that every car owner needs to know how to maintain their own vehicles. This is obviously not the case. Most cars on the road are safely maintained by the owner paying a mechanic to perform the work. The owner doesn't need to know how to change the oil... they just need to know that it needs to be changed, and where to get the work done. Does this make the owner bad? Hardly. Does it mean they are not qualified to own and maintain a whole fleet of cars? No... quite the contrary. They are probably the person you want directing a crew of mechanics to keep the fleet moving. They know what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, and a bunch of mechanics they can get to do it.
Is being a successful manager more about who you know? Yes, it is, but not the derogatory way you mean. It's about collaborating with the right people to accomplish the goal. To extend the car maintenance analogy... i have a car that's beginning to grind going into second gear. Do i know someone who can do transmission work? No, but i do know a shop down the road who might. It turns out he has an excellent transmission specialist. Problem solved without needing to know how to remove and troubleshoot a transmission.
When it's said the manager is superior to the worker, it's got nothing to do with knowledge of manual processes. It has to do with the mindset required to be a manager... Collaborating with other involved team leaders, and directing suboudinates efficiently. The only part of this machine that cares about weather or not the manager can do the work of their subordinates is the subordinates. And, the reality is that doesn't really matter. It does earn some respect from the subordinates, but a few unpopular directives later, and that's erased. At the end of the day... respect or no, the subordinate will do as directed if they want their pay. Respect the rank, if not the man.
This misconception about what knowledge is required to advance is why there are an abundance of people who were promoted out of union jobs only to fall woefully short as a manager. What value does an inadequate manager have to their employer? Very little. The less value you offer your employer, the less incentive there is to reward you.
Oh, and by the way... i'm not "sh–ting on the board." Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, the message is consistant and positive... take responsibility for your prosperity. Increase your skills and knowledge. Provide value to your employer so they want to reward you. Find the courage to get out from under the protection, control, and limitations the union imposes on you. Take the risk, and see what you are able to accomplish when you rely on yourself.

Oh yeah??? Well i know a union thug that was fired (he was even lazier than most of em).
He is now living in the sewer eating corn outta floaters!!!
Hes much happer being where he belongs.
THERE!!!
NEENER NEENER NEENER!!!!!

If you play your cards right, your career is over after a VSP. Its off to retirement or some kick back part time gig. Sorry if someone can't handle the fact that some non union positions are extremely lucrative especially on the wireless side, but it is what it is, being jealous and bragging on here about union priviledges won't change that.

Haha!! Our last manager took the VSP and got a job as a used car salesman....now I think he’s dabbling in real estate. Real smart career move!

What a joke....superior my a$$. If you are managing a line crew, you should know how to do line work. Fiber/copper splicing....you should know how to do the job. It is not my job to explain to a manager how to do his/her job. If they are superior, then they should know my job better than I do, I mean, that would make them superior...right? I guess by superior you mea they know how to brown nose to get to the top. Social networking rather than hard working is the ticket t the top? When I started with the company, the bosses were promoted from within...they knew how to do the job because they did it! Arguing with you is like playing chess with a pigeon....when you beat him, he’s just going to Sh!t all over the game board and strut around like he won the game. Side note: I don’t know a single manager below the level of director that is better off financially than I am. Guess they aren’t superior after all.

Ours is not to reason why
Ours is but to do and die

"Thrown away like a used comdom"... that shows your limited view of the way things work. If your employeer no longer sees a value in your services, there is NO reason they should keep employing you. It's YOUR job to keep yourself valuable to your employeer so they WANT to keep you around.
Conversely, if your employment situation is no longer a benefit to you, find another employer! The union forces employers to retain employees that bring no value to the table. Not only retain them, but pay them, give them raises and provide benefits. Not every union member fits this description, but more than enough do. Employers do, rightfully, resent this.
Kudos to your friends for trying to better their lot in life. That does show a superior mindset. Obviously, they didn't negotiate their salary/benefits well enough. S—ling at mama union's bosom doesn't instill one with negotiating skill... by design. It's up to you to cultivate this knowledge. Your friends were not ready for one reason or other. Unfortunately, they may have been better off paying for union protection. Not everyone can "climb the ladder" successfully.
In regards to your "off the street" managers: knowing YOUR job is not THEIR job. Managers usually are privy to more information than the union members. Because of this, desisions are made and action is initiated that seems wasteful or inefficient to the union member. It hardly means the manager is somehow deficient. It means the manager sees a bigger picture than the union member. It is the union member's job to adapt.

Just wait until the company throws you away like a used condom! I’m friends with many managers outside of work...not one liked how the company treated them. All agreed that it was a mistake taking a promotion to management and wished they would’ve stayed in the union. On a side note...most all of the good managers are gone...the ones left are hired right off of the street and have NO idea how to do the job of the people they are “superior” to.

7pfd... i couldnt say it better myself. I cant wait to see all the negative reactions of everyone who dont want to KNOW this is dead accurate.

Yes, cowards and weaklings. At least the manager you tried to intimidate had the courage to take personal resposibility for how he/she provides for him/herself and his/her family. If you are in a position to try to intimidate them, then they are above you in some capacity or other.... they are your superior. And, yes, i do mean superior.
I applaude that manager's efforts. I hope they maximize their opportunity and prosper at VZ or wherever their career takes them.
On the other hand, as long as someone submits to the union, they can only prosper as much as the union allows. Admittedly, that's probably more than the average union member has the skill and knowledge to negotiate for themselves. But, the only way to improve their lot in life under this structure is to serve more years, and hope the next negotiatin get them a few more sc-aps.
What i hope for union members is that they better themselves... get the knowledge and skills to escape from an entity that protects the incompetent and lazy... this just limits all members prosperity. I hope for people to build the courage to live up to their full potential... whatever that may be.
If that potential exceeds what the union allows, it will never be realized as long as one submits to their authority.

Cowards and weaklings? But as as soon as you talk to one of these newbie managers they claim they felt threatened

I don't hate unions, but i do have a profound distaste for weakilings and cowards that require the paid protection of unions. Dues... Unions. Protection money... Mafia. Same difference.
If union members post on a management forum, they should not be surprised when they are reminded that union topics do not belong there.
If you're offended, feeling bullied, or if your feelings are hurt, it might be time to grow up and get a pair.
Or, you can just run off to mama union and see if she can make it all better.

Question of thread is about a possible EISP, layoff board LMAO, if you don't like the question asked, scroll away trolls. Wireless non union and mngrs hate unions, but wish they were in one. Unfortunately, it is true. The Layoff website really is for non union trolls, to troll around Union members get retirement and packages, others get the door and led off property.

There will definitely be an offer before the Altice purchase.

Our garage was told today by a second level that he’s been hearing rumors of an eisp coming soon. He said he had no other details and nothing has been officially announced. Hoping we hear something soon. I’ll stay until the end of the contract if need be, but if one comes along, I’ll probably take it.

@5fha
You don’t understand why the company offers an eisp. They do it when they announce a surplus. They have to offer two eisp’s before they can lay off by way of seniority. Everyone that takes an eisp not only benefits, but the workers at the bottom are spared being laid off. It’s a benefit that was bargained for. Those who are close to retirement but want to work another couple of years may take a six figure buyout in lieu of working another 2-3 years. The company also benefits because they get the older workers off of the payroll...they are the ones with the most vacation, are at the top of the pay scale. It also costs the company money for insurance on the pension fund and they have to pay someone to manage it. The newer hires don’t have a pension....they have an enhanced 401k. So you see, an eisp benefits everyone involved except the jealous non union people trolling a eisp thread.

Its a layoff site not a buyout site. You union people think everything is meant to be purposed for yourselves and no one else. Union associates at Verizon is one of the worst cultures I have ever seen aside from government entities. I have tons of free time, believe what you will I could care less.

Oh yeah and I got mine. Got it good.

@5hgu. What could a retired real estate investor possibly find interesting about trolling a buyout site? I call BS. If by some strange twist in reality you are as set as you make yourself out to be. I enlighten you that 45 isn't so young relative to many EISP takers
Many are under 50 and the vast majority are under 55. I will also say many at least in the circle I hang with have real estate investments as well be it multi-family and/or vacation homes and several with maybe a smattering of small commercial spaces. Many also have small businesses they run as well that they will devote more time to after they receive their EISP. You act the God of achievement. I doubt you have achieved much other than a trollish demeanor on Buyout sites. Those that crow the loudest tend to have the least to crow about.

Here was my "flash in the pan" 15 year career at Verizon:

1) Hired as assistant store manager
2) Promoted to store manager
3) Promoted to Ops Senior Analyst
4) Prototed to Ops Senior Manager
5) Promoted to Ops Associate Director
6) Promoted to Area Ops Director
7) Promoted to Executive Director Marketing
8) Position elimintaed and offered 7 digit executive severance package.
9) Retire at 45 years old and become real estate investor.

No military experience required but you better believe discipline and college are.

Thats all folks.

Whether union or management, everyone made their choices based on what they thought best.
History has shown that managers are “flash in the pan” careers here, extremely risky.
Same history shows craft jobs as stagnant, there is no where to go.
Everyone has traded something for their job, we all sold out to a degree.
The bottom line is: no one would do any of it if it didn’t work for them.
The management/union divide is by design, keeps everyone distracted and focused on BS. Those at the top share no pain.
I will not miss this part of Verizon, I will not miss much at all. The job did for me as I expected it to do, there was never any emotional investment made to this job. It worked, it’s almost done, perfect.

Well, that was a long winded sales pitch. Still not sold on 30 years hard labor for crumbs. Thanks though.

@4ypb I beg to differ. My manager is always telling us that he is envious of the deal we have. I say this with no malicious intent against him he is a nice guy and reasonable to work with. I have quite a few managment friends who regret their move into it. They where sold a bill of goods by the company years ago. Some have moved to better things with the last VSP. I wish most of them the best. Until one cracks to director or above there is little if any advantage to being unrepresented. I applaud any who works hard in an effort to get ahead in life, but becoming a manager at VZ is very unlikely to yield most any more than a represented employee in one of the higher paying job titles. A real go getter I would argue should not even work for this place. It doesn't deserve them.

4cqy- an eisp comes after a rif. Union may care about a rif as it could show a coming eisp, but management could give a c-ap.

Management employees are in no way envious of unionized employees. They have made a conscious decision to not be represented. It's a risk/reward decision... choosing union offers an employee protection, regular raises, and a guaranteed benefits package. In exchange, they are put in a senoirity based structure where rewards are based on time served regardless of performance.
A management career path foregoes the protections and guarantees in exchange for a performance based reward structure. Salary and benefits are bargained for on an individual basis. The better you perform, the more bargaining leverage you have. Salaries, promotions, and benefits can all increase higher and faster than in a union environment. In addition, this path puts you in line to be a decision maker helping to direct the course and prosperity of the company and it's employees.
Those in management are neither abused or taken advantage of any more than union employees. That is a fallacy perpetuated by union leadership to ensure their jobs are secure.

@4xdw you are wrong. EISP s have everything to do with layoffs. They are the contractual protection against them. The company needs to announce a reduction in force before announcing one.

You get negative comments about the eisp and other union specific topics because this is a layoff board.
Layoffs apply to management... not union.

Just so you know, the VSP is for Management and Wireless only. Union should take their handout conversations to the union board 😉

Just so you trolls know..the ISP, EISP and Mega EISP are for Union employees only. This DOES NOT apply to Management and Wireless 😉

Denial... it's not just a river in Egypt.

Bring on the super RIF. We have too many do nothing managers as it is. They should subcontract managers. While they’re at it, to save even more money, they should fire all wireless sales persons and only sell them online or at the big box stores.

What does a wireless senior analyst have to do with an EISP ? The answer nothing. They aren't even contractually eligible for one. Are you an analyst on the wireless side? If so then you are just a parrot repeating the same innane talk of sale and other bitter,delusional rantings. Wireless has it's own page. Take your gripes there.

$1 million to $2 million? Is that alot? Senior Analysts on the wireless side pull in that much in half the time. Keep beggin for your beggin EISPs!

@3hwl What does the imagined sale of wireline have to do with leaving with a sack fill of cash? The money is in the proverbial bag just waiting for the trigger pull. This "tale of a sale" has been ongoing near two decades now people have completed careers contemplating it's coming not unlike some who await the Rapture. Hell many have retired and died since it started. Ever see those bumper stickers that say "This car will be unmanned in the event of the Rapture"? Do have such a sticker?

In regards to financial planners when has it been that only blue collar folks are their customers. I would argue that their traditional customer base has been white collar on nature. That being said I have never used one myself. I'm somewhat neutral on the opinion of whether or not they are useful. We shall see after I pull the trigger.

Financial institutions lol...more like ambulance chasers for blue collar $uckers who can't manage money.

Wireline getting sold.

Many financial institutions feel something in 4th Q... that said if something IS offered, nobody really knows until it happens, it's ok to dream, ok to plan, ok to ride out contract. Most believe it would be the 10 plus 40 plus money X years ( 2200 mo), managers got salary x 20 last year into this year. Still ends up on paycheck, no way around the cash added..so minus about 40%. Best case for people looking to leave, with the time needed, is if they are walking wounded and dont want to work anymore, anywhere, with exception of making less than 1200 a month supplemental is ssdi. Most can collect with 27 - 30 years around 2900 tax free, but risk getting approved, if you feel you can, and want to enjoy a quality of life before job takes its toll as well as age as time f—s us all.. that is the best way to get out now, and vz lawyers will be more than happy to fight for you..as it takes you off vz mediacal, and media are takes its place, making vz coverage secondary. Onlybthingbis the risk of approval...need up to date medical from doctors, and a good reason..the older you are and more time on job cuts the odds of disapproval.

@3bld The facts speak otherwise. Most wouldn't take a pension anymore as the buyout is much more lucrative at the moment ,of course that could change. If it does the pension continues to accrue anyways, to levels certainly above 3300. Each year worked is one closer to Medicare as well. We get retirement benefits as it is and even in some future doomsday scenario it is years away most I know have plenty of capital to bridge a number of years to Medicare. I would argue the reason for not leaving is certainly not fear it is greed and not meant in a negative way. There are almost four full years to earn another five to six hundred grand guaranteed. Why would one leave for a mere 134k with that on the table. Unless one was hellbent on leaving do to specific family or health circumstances staying is too lucrative to pass up. Most of us have our houses paid off and if they put in the 16% over the years have been millionaires for a while now. One could argue when is enough enough. I will quote John Rockefeller "just a little bit more." The offer would be hard to pass up in early 2023 since it will be greater than what can be made till the end. Until then I doubt there will be many takers.

Finish the contract and go.

Fun fact, max 3300 month pension, paying for medical when retired, and more then likely a crash in the market correcting the lofty 401k’s will keep the majority from voluntary retiring ..

I can't wait until i can nap at home instead of the truck or garage

Wow....someone posting here is now “guaranteeing” an offer will come out in October...he should post as Joe Namath....99% of the posts here aren’t of much value though...but being anonymous, it’s kind of expected...

I do hope he’s right though....we arent slow where I am, so I don’t know if they would include us at all if an eisp actually comes this fall...