They say people won’t lose existing officer titles but you know that’s not going to be true. Many that worked hard to earn titles will soon see downgrades.
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Officer titles confer no benefits or authority. none.
But we spend zillions of HR-hours to develop a new officer title system.
And what is said about not bumping titles down is in fact true, but ironically, that's exactly what makes it unfair and a joke.
Depending what LOB someone came thru, you may have no officer title, one that's lower than the new standards, or one that's higher. for the first two cases, they're going to bump you "up" to the correct title. If you have an officer title that's higher than the new system, they're letting you keep it. So, for example, we have "directors" with EVP titles that will keep them, when the new standard is that only "senior executives" and up get EVP titles. ("Director" is two levels below "senior executive"). How does that make things consistent?
I made VP about 10 years ago. I recently found out that I am still a VP. Haven't checked it in that many years, and this is the first time I remember it even being discussed, so I agree with those who say it means little or nothing. Although that may depend on what department or line of business one is in.
Agree.
All worked up about titles, have some mental problem.
Ah..sorry! But….Isn’t that why they are employed here?
Why in the world would a M1 or P1 have an officer title? Those are front line managers or near the front line professionals.
Not Director, everyone wants to be a Dictator.
These days, it seems like everyone is Director. We've got folks strutting around our building, going up to anyone who will listen, and proudly declaring themselves a Director.
Oh wow, you're right. I went back and looked. So I guess P5s would align with Exec Director. That just seems so odd to me. And all these Sr Managers at Managing Director? Thanks
This is correct. I am a senior lead/P5 with corp. title ‘director’. Have been told I will move to exec dir. I could care less, as I’m more interested in moving to M4 director, which is coming I hope.
Executive Director is lower than SVP. Managing Director and SVP are equal level.
The fact that they are telling some people that P5s will be at Executive Director...lol! An Executive Director title for all of those individual contributors? They will be at SVP at best. Watch...
Also M3 does not align with a P5. A M3 is just a regular manager which currently aligns with a "Lead" role, based on pay. A M4 is a senior manager and currently aligns with a "Senior Lead" which is P5. There is also a P6 as "Principal" which are few and far between so of any individual contributor is an Executive Director it will be that.
I’ll give the current leadership credit for recognizing the current officer titles are an inconsistent mess in relation to their definitions. For a long time they were ignored and some folks were given them who shouldn’t have them, and others just didn’t care and probably have a lower title than warranted. Now that they’re being made relevant again, there have to be changes.
This is not going to be accurate, person. You are forgetting about the P6 principle level role. They are going to stuff P5 in at VP. It is going to be a schift show because the managers are not gonna want to be a lower level officer title than their staff. Believe me when I tell you this. You are not getting Executive Director. It will be VP and Sr. AVP. Your SVP is gone and your VP will be gone too for some of you P3's and P4's. The P2's might even end up staying at AVP.
“Executive Director” for those in a P5 role. HA—most of the people at this level I work with barely do anything or are just normal individual contributors. Seems like a bit of an embellishment of that role.
If officer title isn’t important to you. Don’t come here and read. If it is, then this is how it’s going to get mapped:
P1- Analyst
P2- Assistant VP
P3- Senior Assistant VP
P4- VP
P5- Executive Director
M1- Senior Assistant VP
M2- VP
M3- Executive Director
@1zwo I didn't offer details because my manager typically calls on the last possible day, so I expect anyone the information is relevant to would already know.
You want an actual detail? The first word in my job title correlates to the new title I am being raised to. This MAY ONLY BE pertinent to my situation, so it may not be relevant to you or yours. Is that useful information to you?
Y'all expect way too much.
Only a naive jack off without care about "officer titles".
Thank you, and have a warm, blessed day.
Who cares? An officer title means nothing.
“Votes” on this site are about as useful as Officer Titles. You are probably downvoted because no one cares and you have not offered up any information that could be useful.
officer titles are just a way for them to scapegoat us when there is an issue, they can say an officer of WF was let go. How title are deployed has always been lob/group dependent. I remember a time when you had to deserve it and it was even acknowledged and celebrated in meetings when someone got one or a better one, now they just hand them out based on your role. means nothing in the grand scheme of things
Three downvotes for telling the truth about my officer title going up one step. Believe what you want but that was directly from my manager's mouth.
I do not believe P5 will be Executive Director. I believe most VP's are going to end up Sr. AVP and SVP's pushed down to VP. That Executive Director is going to be used cautiously.
And to the dude who said read the materials sent out. There was absolutely no mapping of what you would get. And the further you dig the whole damn thing is not rolling out until 2024 not Q4. Q4 maybe for the managers scrambling to ensure they get a better title assigned.
Who cares. It is still a title that people can put on their business card, email, LinkedIn, and resume. You know darn well you want a higher title.
they hand out titles like candy at a parade.
The officer title of Officer is not new. It is being replaced with Analyst. Officer is the old lowest level title.
Shart had been against officer titles for anyone not at Hudson Yards since the day he got here. Non-execs in most LOBs no longer awarded these titles until this very recent change of heart. Many people don't care about titles, and that's fine, just leave them off your email sig. Some people do care. Either way, it costs the company hardly any $, so there's minimal downside. Of course, they shouldn't have wasted any time/money shutting them down when Shart came on board, but unFing that decision cost less than just about anything else they do, so, whatever. Personally I'm glad they reversed course on this.
What if you happen to be very, very good at your job? Is it possible to have an officer title higher than some of your peers who try their best to drag down your job family?
WF downgraded officer titles for many WB employees after the purchase. They survived and some even thrived, until Chainsaw came along I mean.
Officer title does not mean much at Wells, but it definitely matters at other financial institutions. Your pay, benefits, severance, etc is literally based on your title/level. So yes, an AVP literally gets less pay, less bonus and less severance than a VP. My guess is Wells will eventually move to that model in the future.
There are some trolls here probably from the executive team, trying to convince you that this is nothing. Do not listen to them. If your title gets upgraded, lucky for you. But if your title happens to get downgraded, it could negatively impact your external employment marketability. There is always a certain "perception" about the title on your resume. Look at LinkedIn profiles from other companies to see what kind of titles they are posting.
@uiu+1oWSJ7Tn
"Makes you less marketable externally if you get downgraded"
Nobody gets a job based on their executive title, you get a job based on what work you are doing and your ability to prove to the new company that you are competent at your job.
Business Execution Consultants probably really, really care about their officer title.
People let's get to the real question and reality of why it's happening: How is this going to further cut down on compensation? The real goal is getting people to quit to avoid severance. This is yet another of the many designed actions by Schart and his OC minions to do just that.
I’m a P4 and already VP, so sounds like no change.
It amazes me how we can all receive the same company wide email with links to finite details about the content of the aforementioned email and yet so many are unable to read and comprehend.
OP is literally a lie.
I know some do need to care about their Officer Titles because of their roles and future employment but JEEEEEPUS, read the links they sent us instead of posting to a layoff forum.
Don't be obtuse. Hardly anything about your life goes on your headstone, doesn't mean it doesn't matter. I guess the company can change your job title to "Associate Worthless POS", and your pay to min wage and you'd be cool with it because neither your job title nor your pay rate will go on your headstone so alllll is good, amiright?
they added a new officer title literally called "officer". Do you really think these matter?
It matters not. Are you going to put your “officer title” on your grave stone?
Titles mean nothing at Wells, they are just window dressing for regulators who apparently respect people with titles more. That’s probably why it was a free-for-all with the title assignments a couple years ago.
Smoke & mirrors folks
One thing for sure, I thought the VP was like next in line to the CEO when I applied for my current position 😀 - so definitely my boss would have had a lot of qualified pool of candidates waiting to report to a “VP”